How to become an FFL (gun dealer) in California

[tenpercentfirearms]

I have a coe through my 03 license, and I have a resale permit. My city is very reasonable with ffl's, and if not, there is a city nearby that is practically a lock as far as the CLEO is concerned. So my steps then would be to ...

1. Apply for my local business license with the correct wording.

Yes.

2. If I get approved for the license, then apply for my FFL.

Once you get a business license, apply for the FFL, COE, and Retail Sales Permit (I know you have a COE) all at the same time.

3. If everything goes through with that, then I could send the information to the State for my CFLC?

Leave CFLC out of this. Once you get your CFD, then you can register to send guns around California through the CFLC system. Being registered for the CFLC is not required to receive guns, only to ship.

4. If I get all of the above handled, then I could expect a meeting with BATFE for the explanation?

The BATFE will come by after approving your license, but before you get it. It is pretty informal. They will ask some questions about facility, storage, and things like that. No big deal just tell them what you have or what you have planned.

My only remaining question is how does the CLEO relate to the business license? Are they hand in hand? Do the persons who approve the license need approval from the CLEO because of the nature of the business?

CLEO stands for Chief Law Enforcement Officer. There is no CLEO "sign off" required by BATFE for a FFL. There is a CLEO "notification". Basically you are going to simply notify CLEO that you are a gun shop in the area.

Now this isn't to say that your local business license agency might not require CLEO to sign off on your local business license. However, there is no BATFE requirement for CLEO approval to receive your 01/07 FFL. Again this is why local business license is the first and foremost step. Starting anywhere else is potential waste of time and money.

Also, do you apply for an 07 at the same time? The gun shop I worked at for a year did not have our 07 until about 6 months after I worked there. Then we got it and began manufacturing AR's.

If I am correct, you are either an 01 or an 07. You are not both. So if you want to be an 07, apply for that instead of an 01. As an 07 you can do everything an 01 can in the State of California.

[We The People Firearms]

Thanks again sir, your help was above and beyond.

[twoguesses]

Has anyone ever heard of dealing strictly online? Putting a website together and just dealing that way with all merchandise secured in a safe at one's residence? I live in oakland so there's no way i'd get a license for a storefront (not sure i'd want that kind of overhead anyway), but i've been kicking around the idea of having a strictly online business with the business address being my residence.

I've looked at the required forms and they don't really seem geared to this way of doing business.


Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks

[kemasa]

It should be possible, but I think that it will not work since you need a business license which is valid for the retail sale of firearms. If you don't have a local business license, then you can't get on the CFD list and if you can't get on that and have all the permits, then your FFL would not be valid.

You could check to see if you can get a local business license with the restriction that you have no one come to your location (might be a problem with UPS/FedEx).

[twoguesses]

It should be possible, but I think that it will not work since you need a business license which is valid for the retail sale of firearms. If you don't have a local business license, then you can't get on the CFD list and if you can't get on that and have all the permits, then your FFL would not be valid.

You could check to see if you can get a local business license with the restriction that you have no one come to your location (might be a problem with UPS/FedEx).

See that's kinda my point. I would be selling retail but just shipping to a buyer's local FFL. I could also act as an FFL agent to recieve for a buyer (FFL to FFL, C&R handguns from out of state, etc.) but use a brick and mortar place for DROS and transfer (when necessary) for the 10 day wait.
I frankly would just be trying to recoup the periodic fees for being an FFL and getting on the CFD while having the convenience of the 01 license. Wouldn't really be trying to get rich.

Thanks for the input. Going to go over the scenarios and see what local muni has to say.

[Mr310]

Just out of curiosity, what if one wants an FFL to get guns for themselves that they would not otherwise be able to get? They would not be in the business of selling firearms, but would simply pay all of the taxes and fill all of the requirements so that they would be able to get a cool collection. Is that a definite impossibility or is it simply unfeasible because of the costs?

[kemasa]

The costs can be high, but more importantly a 01 FFL is not for a personal collection, but for a business. It is appears that you are not in business, they could revoke your FFL.

[Mr310]

The costs can be high, but more importantly a 01 FFL is not for a personal collection, but for a business. It is appears that you are not in business, they could revoke your FFL.

Ahh. Well, not to give anyone here the wrong impression, but what if the person in question were to simply do one PPT or something similarly small (say for just calgun forum members in the West Los Angeles area) per calender year. I know that the government frequently oversteps a great deal of boundaries when it comes to this area, or at least it seems that way to me, but there's no law against being a bad business person.

[damoni]

From my research on the matter, ATF will not renew FFL license after the first three year period, if no sales have been recorded. So I guess you would have 3 years to purchase all the firearms you would want for yourself before the "curtain was closed". Not to mention, you are going to need references to get accounts from manufacturers-(good luck). Although I haven't been researching for more than a couple weeks.
I am looking to start small, sell to friends and family first, as I expand to an internet base. Eventually moving to a retail location in 2-3 years time, and I've already got a massive headache trying to piece this all together step by step the right way, the first time.
I'm thinking that state gov. puts so many road blocks in front of you so one will throw their hands up in despair and walk away from it. (arming yourself with flowers and winning one for the dems!)

[kemasa]

Yes, you could do some PPTs, but in the end if the BATF decides that you are not in the business, you could have a problem. Also, consider all the costs. I suspect it could be cheaper to move out of CA to buy the firearms you want and then move back :-).

[996pilot]

To get an 07 do I have to be zoned in an industrial area? Or is this up to the city I live in? I just want to build Ar's and aks. Maybe do some single shot conversions.

[996pilot]

Do I need a business license that says valid to manufacturer firearms? Or something to that effect?

[echoarms]

Negative unless you get it in writing from the city that they will issue you a business license that says "Valid for the Retail Safe of Firearms" when you present a valid 01/07 FFL or they will pay you $10000 for void of this contract.

The ATF will give you a license. They do not care as long as you are not a prohibited person. They will cash your $200 check and they don't care if you have a license you can't use.

If your city won't approve you a business license with "Valid for the Retail Safe of Firearms" printed on it, the CA DOJ will not issue you a CFD and you will not sell guns in this state.

So I would not go through the trouble and effort of spending time and money for a license if I did not know that the city had or was guaranteed to give me a business license.

Good luck!

Although I agree with the spirit of this, it can't always work that way. My local county sheriff (I don't live in a city) will not issue me a business license until i hand them a COE, resale license, and current FFL. That is the step I am currently at.

[Gunsmithing]

Yes you will need a business license in most of CA.
Some times it is not hard
Most city's like you sell on main street not your home.
The 07 is use by some retailer to assemble guns in C zoning but you do have more paper work and taxs from the FED's

Good luck
Dave

Do I need a business license that says valid to manufacturer firearms? Or something to that effect?

[kemasa]

I believe that the FFL application states that you will get, not have, the required permits and licenses, which indicates that it is acceptable to get the FFL before all the other permits. Perhaps they won't do that in practice though.