Some FFL 07 questions

[EBR Works]

I'm beginning the process of getting an 07. I have a few questions that I have not been able to resolve. I have done searches and read through most every relevant thread in this section.

1: As an 01, obviously your business license needs to state "valid for retail sale of firearms". I spoke with a local 07 and he said that his simply states that it is valid for manufacturing. What business license language is the ATF going to want to see specifically for an 07? My business model is going to be internet and GB based with some sales to a local 01 and at gun shows.

2: As an 07, can one purchase virgin, off list AR lower receivers direct from the manufacturer and then assemble them into single shot roster exempt pistols (BB & sled) for sale in California?


That's it for now. I'm sure I'll have more dumb questions later....

[Table Rock Arms]

I could not tell you exactly what your business license must state. Mine states manufacture of firearms and ammunition. I would think they are definitely going to want to see manufacturing as that is what you will be doing.

As for your second question is yes. You will however have to pay excise tax which is 11% on rifles and 10% on pistols. Also, you would need to mark the complete firearm with your information to include your company name, city, state, caliber, and serial number. If you are going to do a bunch of these, you might want to look into having the receivers engraved with your information from the manufacturer. I think Mega will do them for a minimum order of like 25 and there is a setup fee for you first order.

Ryan

[EBR Works]

If we are not machining the lower from raw stock and are instead purchasing them finished from an existing manufacturer, why would we need to engrave them with our info?

[AJAX22]

If we are not machining the lower from raw stock and are instead purchasing them finished from an existing manufacturer, why would we need to engrave them with our info?

Because there is no exise tax paid on a stripped lower, assembly of the firearm = manufacturing in the mind of the batfe.

So you are responsible for paying 10% or 11% of the sale price of the assembled gun to the BATFE. and are required to engrave it with your info.

Unless you have the lowers marked with your info on a variance from the BATFE by the company that makes the lowers you're going to have to engrave a second set of info onto them.

Manufacturing is a HUGE pita.

[Table Rock Arms]

Because according to ATF you are the manufacturer. The person who makes the receiver did not manufacture a complete firearm. I don't know if that is what people are doing, but if you contact ATF I can tell you that they are going to tell you that you must mark the gun with your information. You can use the serial number that is already on the receiver, and you can put all the other information in the receiver or the barrel as long as it is not covered. Now, I know that there are situations where you can get a variance from ATF that allows certain people in the manufacturing process to leave their information off the gun. I am not sure how that would apply to you however as you would be the end manufacturer. For example if you were to have Mega make lowers with your information, Mega would file for a variance from ATF to mark the receivers with your information. I am not sure if you could request a variance to use Mega's information however. I don't know exactly how that works. You would have to contact the Firearms and Technology Branch about that.

Ryan

[Table Rock Arms]

Because there is no exise tax paid on a stripped lower, assembly of the firearm = manufacturing in the mind of the batfe.

So you are responsible for paying 10% or 11% of the sale price of the assembled gun to the BATFE. and are required to engrave it with your info.

Unless you have the lowers marked with your info on a variance from the BATFE by the company that makes the lowers you're going to have to engrave a second set of info onto them.

Manufacturing is a HUGE pita.

This is correct. If you are planning on doing more than 25, you really should look into having lowers made with your info. I looked into it, as I may do it down the road and the price is really pretty good.

[Table Rock Arms]

This might help. Just having read through it real quick, it looks like you could get a variance and build them without putting your information on the gun. You would have to look into it. And either way you are paying excise tax on each gun if you do more than 50 per year.

Ryan

[EBR Works]

Interesting. The AR pistol that I purchased last month from an out-of-state 07 was assembled by him on a virgin lower that he purchased from a major manufacturer. He did not engrave his information on the firearm anywhere. He did pay the FET on the sale price of the firearm since he does more than 49 units per year. I discussed this with him a few minutes ago and his position is that engraving is not required since he did not manufacture the lower. He did not obtain a variance.

[AJAX22]

Interesting. The AR pistol that I purchased last month from an out-of-state 07 was assembled by him on a virgin lower that he purchased from a major manufacturer. He did not engrave his information on the firearm anywhere. He did pay the FET on the sale price of the firearm since he does more than 49 units per year. I discussed this with him a few minutes ago and his position is that engraving is not required since he did not manufacture the lower. He did not obtain a variance.

Well he's breakin the law... ATF is very clear on this.

[Table Rock Arms]

Interesting. The AR pistol that I purchased last month from an out-of-state 07 was assembled by him on a virgin lower that he purchased from a major manufacturer. He did not engrave his information on the firearm anywhere. He did pay the FET on the sale price of the firearm since he does more than 49 units per year. I discussed this with him a few minutes ago and his position is that engraving is not required since he did not manufacture the lower. He did not obtain a variance.

Unfortunately I think there are lots of people doing this. I do not know every firearm law there is. This one I do know. I asked about this when I had my initial examination. I have inquired about this to the Firearms and Technology branch of ATF and they assured me that my information would have to go on the gun. This information is also in the Federal Firearms Regulations Guide. If you manufacture a complete firearm, or modify an already complete firearm in a manner that is considered manufacturing, you must either obtain a variance or you must put your information on the gun.

Ryan

[vanderjack]

Because there is no exise tax paid on a stripped lower, assembly of the firearm = manufacturing in the mind of the batfe.

So you are responsible for paying 10% or 11% of the sale price of the assembled gun to the BATFE. and are required to engrave it with your info.

Unless you have the lowers marked with your info on a variance from the BATFE by the company that makes the lowers you're going to have to engrave a second set of info onto them.

Manufacturing is a HUGE pita.

Not true in regard to having a stripped 100 % lower you make into a full firearm, you are required to pay the excise tax but you are exempt if the Firearm in an NFA weapon and the $5.00 or $200.00 tax is paid.
You do however have to have the receiver engraved if it is an NFA weapon.

Just so we are clear you do not have to have a title one weapon re-engraved with your info, only re-engraved if you make it into a title two weapon.
We are 07 FFL's with SOT's we actually make the ORION 7 soon to be released.

For excise tax purposes you are MFGing a weapon
For ATF purposes you are assembling a registered part(lower into a complete weapon.
The lower is already reg with the ATF by RRA or colt or whoever made the lower.

[vanderjack]

Well he's breakin the law... ATF is very clear on this.

You are wrong, I just reaffirmed this with THE NFA/ATF
304-616-4500

[AJAX22]

Not true in regard to having a stripped 100 % lower you make into a full firearm, you are required to pay the excise tax but you are exempt if the Firearm in an NFA weapon and the $5.00 or $200.00 tax is paid.
You do however have to have the receiver engraved if it is an NFA weapon.

Just so we are clear you do not have to have a title one weapon re-engraved with your info, only re-engraved if you make it into a title two weapon.
We are 07 FFL's with SOT's we actually make the ORION 7 soon to be released.

For excise tax purposes you are MFGing a weapon
For ATF purposes you are assembling a registered part(lower into a complete weapon.
The lower is already reg with the ATF by RRA or colt or whoever made the lower.

The ATF has repeatedly stated otherwise,

If you are assembling a firearm on a receiver which has another manufacturers markings on it, then you need to obtain a variance. EVERY 07FFL who contributes to the construction of the firearm needs to obtain a variance if they want to avoid having their information engraved on the gun.

or assembly

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/marking-variances.html

[AJAX22]

You are wrong, I just reaffirmed this with THE NFA/ATF
304-616-4500

Get it in writing, or don't rely on it.

Here is a draft of a request letter

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L5WoeOCl8qtSKzl3TLGuH0uRVhF7f3oU4njtVYc-sEs/edit?hl=en&authkey=CND2ztUO

[EBR Works]

Get it in writing, or don't rely on it.

Here is a draft of a request letter

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...thkey=CND2ztUO

For those without Google Docs access:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405
USA



We would like to have a technical matter clarified regarding the marking and record keeping by 07FFL manufacturers.

1a) Can a complete title 1 firearm from FFL07 “A” have its markings removed by FFL07 “B” providing that FFL07 “B” properly engraves the firearm with FFL07 “B” markings?

1b)What tax obligations does FFL07 “B” incur with regard to the sale of this firearm? (specifically are they liable for paying excise tax on the entire sale price of the firearm, or just the difference between the purchase price and the sale price.

2a) Can a stripped receiver from FFL07 “A” have its markings removed by FFL07 “B” providing that FFL07 “B” properly engraves the firearm with FFL07 “B” markings.

2b) What tax obligations does FFL07 “B” incur with regards to sale of this stripped receiver?

3a) If FFL07 “B” obtains a stripped title 1 firearm receiver from FFL07 “A” and assembles it into a complete firearm, is FFL07 “B” required to mark it with the additional information from FFL07 “B” (leaving the information from FFL07 “A” intact)?

3b) If the answer to 3a is No, Is it permissible for FFL07 “B” to voluntarily mark the receiver with the information from FFL07 “B” in addition to the information from FFL07 “A”

3c) If a second manufacturer or importer adds their information to a firearm, which set of information is considered to define make/model/serial number for the purpose of identifying the firearm.

3d) If a second manufacturer or importer adds their information to a firearm what set of information is to be used for subsequent transfers through an 01 FFL for record keeping purposes?

3e) If both sets of information are present, and only one set of information is to be used for identification, how should the most recent manufacturer indicate that their information is the one to be used for subsequent transfer.

4) if an 07FFL or importer engraves their information on a firearm does that alter the date of manufacture of the firearm to the date when it was later imprinted?