Trying to find and can't... need help please

[beb1954]

I am tryng to locate in the "Penal Code" verbatim where it is and how it is stated regarding the 'disallowance" of a ppt within this state of an off list pistol when the two parties can not hold hands and gaze into each others eyes in adoration. Only when both parties are at the same location to do the transfer. Unless of course you are a LEO, and Retired Milatary I believe. Perhaps one or two other exemptions. Nothing against any of these groups, by themselves or grouped togther either one. However, I don't beleive that they are better than me or any other civilian. I am sure that I am more law abiding than some of them that are given this exemption and WHY?? That is safe? What crime is being prevented within the use of this reg.?

So what I would like to see that the DOJ told me was what they go by, 12071 and 12072 which I found but nowhere within any of the written code did I find anything pertaining to the transfer of a firearm between two private parties in either situation. At the same location to complete DROS and other paper work required or the other situation when at two different ends of the state and won't allow the firearm to be shipped "through valid FFL's" from A to B. What I was told was that the reason given was that the FFL doing the recording of the transaction and DROS etc. "MUST WITNESS BOTH SIGNATURES BY AND OF BOTH PARTIES AT THE SAME TIME"

If there is any FFL that is familar with this and can direct me to or supply a link to where I can find this, I would greatly appreciate it...

Sincere Regards....

[halifax]

Here is some discussion on Split-PPTs. This has been discussed many times but this was the first link I could find.

Hope it helps

ETA: The "resrtiction" comes about mostly because of the requirement that DROS submissions be done electronically; therefore, both parties must be present to properly ID each party. There are some other logistical issues, also.*

ETA2: Try this Google search for much more discussion.

* This statement should get others to chime in

[tenpercentfirearms]

I need a signature and an ID from both parties. If they are both not there, then I can't verify it. I know a lot of people have the split PPTs go to another dealer. Another dealer means nothing to me. I don't know him and he is not part of my business so what he says or does means nothing to me.

Now as kemasa will chime in you don't necessarily need to come in at the same time as you can use the DROS worksheet to get the seller's data and signature and attach it to the buyer's DROS. However, I still need to see and confirm the identity of both parties. I cannot accurately do that remotely.

And that is why split PPTs don't work.

[ocspeedracer]

I need a signature and an ID from both parties. If they are both not there, then I can't verify it. I know a lot of people have the split PPTs go to another dealer. Another dealer means nothing to me. I don't know him and he is not part of my business so what he says or does means nothing to me.

Now as kemasa will chime in you don't necessarily need to come in at the same time as you can use the DROS worksheet to get the seller's data and signature and attach it to the buyer's DROS. However, I still need to see and confirm the identity of both parties. I cannot accurately do that remotely.

And that is why split PPTs don't work.

What about using skype and a fax machine to get around the DROS from imposing these bogus non-laws?

[beb1954]

What I don't understand is that if the originating FFL ships said firearm WITH THE DROS AND MAKE AN AFFIDAVID THAT WOULD ACCOMPANY THAT, to the buying end FFL to complete and then that would then work would it not?
They created the CFLC to get around the problem that some retired schumck ATF Officer created with his little "on the side enterprise" selling to his felon and gang buddies. That is understandable... As the FFL's here, how many of you are aware of the dck ffl's out of state that will not ship to ca. regardless of whatever it is that is the object being bought/sold? Not to mention ca. residents that are just plain POS and I hope he sees this. The walk on water baxxxxd that will know who he is. Just asking for some accommodating to meet at a closer dealer after I would have driven over 100 miles to do the deal. Instead he won't even sell here. Out of Kali only now he has changed his ads to read.... I suppose somewhere the rules say I can't vent about this either and will get another PM or worse. Not that I want it... just sayin...
I have had occasion to have conversation a couple different times with the DOJ folks when I have called for info. They seem sincere when I whine about the different crap laws that are here and how it effects us. You, the FFL's and us peons also. They say they don't like to have to tell us some of what they feel is out of line either. I would really like to see a concerted effort to have this amended/changed. I don't know what kind of response I will get from my assemblyman... I have already called the CRPA and spoke to them. They gave me Pedersen's email and I have still not heard back from him yet.
Thanks for the info. If anyone can still quote the actual code, I would appreciate it so that I can look at how it is exactly written...
thanks again to all.

I need a signature and an ID from both parties. If they are both not there, then I can't verify it. I know a lot of people have the split PPTs go to another dealer. Another dealer means nothing to me. I don't know him and he is not part of my business so what he says or does means nothing to me.

Now as kemasa will chime in you don't necessarily need to come in at the same time as you can use the DROS worksheet to get the seller's data and signature and attach it to the buyer's DROS. However, I still need to see and confirm the identity of both parties. I cannot accurately do that remotely.

And that is why split PPTs don't work.

[tenpercentfirearms]

What I don't understand is that if the originating FFL ships said firearm WITH THE DROS AND MAKE AN AFFIDAVID THAT WOULD ACCOMPANY THAT, to the buying end FFL to complete and then that would then work would it not?

As I stated before, I have no idea what another dealer is capable of. I will not rely on them to make sure the seller is who they say they are. Everyone can lie.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3039987&postcount=4

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4604023&postcount=10

[jtmkinsd]

The Private Party Transaction (PPT) was and is designed to end what are known as Face to Face (FTF) sales of modern firearms in CA. For those who don't understand the difference, an FTF is when two individuals meet to buy/sell a firearm without the use of an FFL.

So, in a PPT, instead of meeting in a parking lot, the buyer/seller must meet at an FFL so the State can verify the buyer is not a prohibited person. The FFL must attempt to "swipe" the ID of both parties into the DROS program when submitting the application, and obtain a signature from both parties as well.

While there is nothing in the PC which specifically states both parties have to be in front of me, the process itself which is outlined in several sections of the PC demands it. The only exemption to this is consignments, where an individual walks into my store, gives me a gun to sell, and if someone walks into my store and buys it, it gets processed as a PPT. If I ship the same gun to another FFL for transfer, it gets processed as a dealer transfer.

In the end, this all comes down to the cost. I understand you don't want to pay the higher fees to ship in a "used" firearm. Unfortunately, there is no way around it. And as an FFL, I'm not going to try and get creative to find a way around it, because I lose money on every PPT.

[tenpercentfirearms]

In the end, this all comes down to the cost. I understand you don't want to pay the higher fees to ship in a "used" firearm. Unfortunately, there is no way around it. And as an FFL, I'm not going to try and get creative to find a way around it, because I lose money on every PPT.

Not necessarily. For handguns it comes down to transferring non-safe handguns that can only be processed through a PPT.