Can FFL import on-list 1911 bare frame?

[vette45]

I'm interested in building a competition guns from a list of selected parts.
So I have the following two questions:

1. If I find a bare frame of a 1911 (assuming it is a take-off-part that came from a pistol that is currently on the CA approved list per DOJ), can a local FFL import this take-off frame for me?

2. If I find a brand new frame from one of the mfg that sells both frame-only gunsmith/replacement part as well as the completed gun (which is on the CA approved list), can a local FFL import this brand new frame for me?

Thanks.

[jtmkinsd]

I'm interested in building a competition guns from a list of selected parts.
So I have the following two questions:

1. If I find a bare frame of a 1911 (assuming it is a take-off-part that came from a pistol that is currently on the CA approved list per DOJ), can a local FFL import this take-off frame for me?

2. If I find a brand new frame from one of the mfg that sells both frame-only gunsmith/replacement part as well as the completed gun (which is on the CA approved list), can a local FFL import this brand new frame for me?

Thanks.

Frames can generally only be purchase through PPT (Private Party Transfer). The problem comes with model numbers. CA residents can only purchase handguns from the "California Safe Handgun List" which does not list frames, but only model numbers of complete handguns. Not to mention it is impossible to do a drop test on a frame, so a manufacturer could not list a frame if they wanted to (isn't CA wonderful?). So, unless you are exempt from the list, you can only buy a frame from a private party.

[vette45]

Ummm... it's a still a bit unclear to me. So how does CA DOJ actually defines what is a "gun" then. It is the frame that's what we have to registered afterall, right? So let's test a few scenarios...

What if some is trying to import a on-list gun but say the previous owner take it completely apart before shipping, can the FFL import this pile of parts inculuding the frame? I would think so, right?

What if someone is trying to import a on-list gun but say a screw is missing? That's legal, right? Now what if the whole slide assembly is missing? Is that still legal?

What if someone is trying to import a on-list gun but say the previous owner has repaired/upgraded the gun so it is no longer "100%" idential to the original, is that still legal?

So is there a master database of the universe of handguns which maps serial# to model#, which the CA DOJ can access to identify what is what then?

Hmmm...

[jtmkinsd]

Ummm... it's a still a bit unclear to me. So how does CA DOJ actually defines what is a "gun" then. It is the frame that's what we have to registered afterall, right?

Handguns are unlike long guns in that there is a specific list of handguns which are deemed "safe". This list is comprised of specific model numbers. A "frame" has no model number (any that I'm aware of) and many times different model numbers use an identical frame. So, the "definition" of what a firearm is is not the complete determining factor of whether or not you may transfer it.

What if some is trying to import a on-list gun but say the previous owner take it completely apart before shipping, can the FFL import this pile of parts inculuding the frame? I would think so, right?

If all the parts are there, it is a complete handgun, if it's listed, it can be shipped in and transferred.

What if someone is trying to import a on-list gun but say a screw is missing? That's legal, right? Now what if the whole slide assembly is missing? Is that still legal?

If an assembly or major portion of the firearm is missing, it is not transferable. In general, it has to have an upper and a lower to be complete (This is how some get around this problem, they will ship the lower with a complete slide. When the transfer is completed, ship the slide back to the other party).

What if someone is trying to import a on-list gun but say the previous owner has repaired/upgraded the gun so it is no longer "100%" idential to the original, is that still legal?

As long as the modifications did not result in the model number changing, it is still the model number listed on DOJ's list, and therefore can be shipped and transferred.

So is there a master database of the universe of handguns which maps serial# to model#, which the CA DOJ can access to identify what is what then?

Nope, there doesn't have to be...because as I stated, a frame doesn't have a specific model number so it can't be on the list.

[tenpercentfirearms]

As was said, it is either a complete listed gun or it isn't. If a dealer wanted to make a big deal out of screw missing, I wouldn't blame them for it. This list is crap, but if you want to DROS guns, you need to deal with it.

Now for fancy race guns that aren't on the list, look up the single shot exemption. You could always have the guy out of state put a single shot magazine in it and a 8" barrel on it and then it would be exempt from the list. Once you receive the gun, you could always decide you didn't need the single shot magazine and 8" barrel and send it back to the seller for a refund.

The list is only for DROSing. Once it is in your possession, you can do whatever you want short of making it an assault weapon or SBR.

[vette45]

I will look into the single shot exemption, sounds interesting, but I can imagine it's difficult to pull-off due to the many extra steps required on the out-of-state seller/FFL.

However, I still have question re the frame vs gun and whether the model number is on-list or not discusion...
Since the model number is (always?) engraved on the slide rather than the frame (I have only seen frame engraved with manufacturer location and serial#, hence my previous question regarding master model/serial database), how would the sending/receiving FFL and CA DOJ determine which exact model is the gun being transferred? I'd imagine they look at the slide, right? So say an out of state seller assemble a complete gun with 1. the frame that I'm actually interested, and 2, a slide engraved with a on-list model, will this work then?

Thanks.

[jtmkinsd]

I will look into the single shot exemption, sounds interesting, but I can imagine it's difficult to pull-off due to the many extra steps required on the out-of-state seller/FFL.

However, I still have question re the frame vs gun and whether the model number is on-list or not discusion...
Since the model number is (always?) engraved on the slide rather than the frame (I have only seen frame engraved with manufacturer location and serial#, hence my previous question regarding master model/serial database), how would the sending/receiving FFL and CA DOJ determine which exact model is the gun being transferred? I'd imagine they look at the slide, right? So say an out of state seller assemble a complete gun with 1. the frame that I'm actually interested, and 2, a slide engraved with a on-list model, will this work then?

Thanks.

More often than not you will never see the actual listed model number engraved anywhere on the gun, only the serial number. If it did have the model number (only ones I can recall seeing a model number on the frame is for revolvers) then a case could be made to transfer said frame. But that still wouldn't mean an FFL would transfer it for you. Some semi-autos do have it on the slide (Glock for example) and generally a number of slides will work with a common lower, so in that instance you probably wouldn't have a problem. but don't have a certain frame, and a slide that won't work with said frame, and expect a successful transfer.