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[.22guy]

Good luck, sounds like you will need it.

[Tripper]

Embezzlement was the prevailing charge i think, for the old FFL around here I was referring to.
Stolen seems appropriate to me, but, i guess going the route of a demand letter is good idea too. unless he can produce something, seems to me it will have been stolen, from someone.
waiting for 4 years, isnt unreasonable for someone to have a bit of faith, and giving benefit of doubt to someone, along with not really knowing what to do.
now that you realize it, you do need to do something.
theres a number of things i'm sure, that you know are wrong, and nobody seems to really know what to do about it.
i'm sure, if OP calls local PD, they'll say they dont know what they can do about it or worse and say its not their problem, Sheriff would say the same, and that usually leaves a person with ?? to turn to?

[Ron-Solo]

Let me clarify a bit. Embezzlement is a type of theft, but since the person originally gave the firearm to the dealer to sell on his behalf, you now have to prove that the dealer does not intent on completing that transaction or returning the firearm. There is no way to show the intent to steal from the original transaction, because the owner willfully gave him the gun to sell for him.

The demand letter is one of the steps needed to show the intent to deprive the owner his gun, or the funds agreed upon in the sales contract.

Simply trying to report it stolen won't fly because there is a strong chance the dealer sold the gun lawfully within the terms of the consignment agreement, but has simply not paid the owner of the gun. The potential customer who bought the gun from the dealer complied with all the rules of the sale such as DROS, etc, and did not steal the gun.

They are complicated investigations because to file a criminal case, you have to be able to show intent to deprive the owner of his property or the funds agreed upon in the consignment sale. I handled many embezzlement cases over 32 years, and they can pose many headaches.

Regardless of any criminal proceedings, I recommend a small claims action to recover the gun or the money. The demand letter is also necessary in civil cases too.

Best of luck.

[brosco]

Understanding All Of The Facts

When a gun is consigned to an FFL that gun remains the individuals property as long as the gun is not logged into the FFL's log book. The FFL might give an individual as much as 48 hours to make up his mind to actually consign the weapon. If he decides not to consign it can be handed back inside that period without a DROS. If he does decide to consign it is a federal law that the gun be DROS back again to the individual once the gun has been logged in. This rule is to thwart the delivery of a firearm in the event any domestic violence or criminal case occurred in the mean time. Since this gun was consigned, the individual most likely filled out a PPT that made it possible to retrieve it at any time paying the standard $35.00 fee for the new DROS. You can't tell me that that opportunity wasn't available to the individual in a 4 year period. Sounds like he didn't want to spend the $35.00 or thought he shouldn't have to.

Also, if the selling individual was fishing for monies well beyond the actual value of the gun while it was in consignment it would obviously be sitting there for a long time. It is sad that some people will not recognize reality, and understand what the market will bear for a firearm that is just not worth what they think. This individual was stuck when he found out that his gun could not get the money he was looking for. Although, I'm sure he had multiple offers that came in and was not willing to accept any of them.

So, for all you professional know it all's out there: know your stuff!

PIGMAN should PM me for more information!!!!

[gt500]

To specifically pigman, the Petaluma store was closed to keep Tyler C, Jones from being forced to try and take it over by a silent partner and steal my inventory as well as consignment firearms. The owner of this firearm had many many opportunities to retrieve it even after I moved because it was left with historic arms company in Sebastopol. The owner of the firearm told that FFL that he would be there and transfer it back to himself on numerous occasions and flaked out numerous times. That FFL returned the firearm to me because he got tired of dealing with your buddy for not showing up when he said he would. Your buddy contacted me and requested I send the firearm to another dealer of his choice in Petaluma which I did and I have a receipt signed by the owner of that FFl to prove that it was delivered to him as per your buddy's request. As for you sircolt64, I kept your gun from being stolen by a hostile takeover and if I wanted to keep it I could have very easily. I have never intentionally kept anyone's firearm without paying them. I am not and have not been affiliated with T.C. Jones in any way ever since the Petaluma store was closed. So, before any of you post any of these ignorant threads, you should know the facts first or shut your trap. Unfortunately, these forums are for people who don't have much of a real life, that is why I never look at these because there are to many people on here like you all that speak before knowing the facts. Not trying to stir up any trouble just trying to set the record strait for my own reputation.