Legal Transfer of Unregistered Firearms

[mercenarypawn]

I have a friend in upstate NY who purchased 5 Colt 45's about 25 years ago from a private collector. It was a cash transaction. No paperwork was filed.

He has very generously offered to give me one of those guns.

He's afraid that he won't be able to legally ship the gun to me because I am insisting that we go through a FFL and register it to me- following all legal procedures in registering the firearm to my name, and he doesn't have any documentation on his end.

His biggest worry is, "what if the gun I bought was registered stolen 25 years ago?"

I'd really love to receive my first 1911 as a gift from this kind man, but don't want either of us to get in any trouble.

So- if he were to ship it to an FFL of my choice, would he need to provide documentation of legal purchase on his end, or would registering it to my name be enough?

Can it be shipped by UPS ground? Does it need to be field stripped to do so? Or just unloaded and in a locked container?

I'd sure appreciate some help.

thanks so much

m

[Call_me_Tom]

For registration, just fill out the voluntary registration paperwork & pay the $17 bucks. I'd do that before he ships you the pistol.

Once it's registered (yours) I believe any FFL can ship it directly to your house.

[halifax]

For registration, just fill out the voluntary registration paperwork & pay the $17 bucks. I'd do that before he ships you the pistol.

Once it's registered (yours) I believe any FFL can ship it directly to your house.

^This is not good advice.

First, is the Colt on the CA roster? If not, it can't be imported into CA unless he is your father, grandfather, child, or grandchild. (or you are LE)

Second, no one, not even an FFL, can ship it directly to you. It must go through a CA FFL.

Your only chance (if it is not on the roster) is that it is > 50 years old or a listed C&R.

As a CA resident, you may be SOL.

[Call_me_Tom]

^This is not good advice.

First, is the Colt on the CA roster? If not, it can't be imported into CA unless he is your father, grandfather, child, or grandchild. (or you are LE)

Second, no one, not even an FFL, can ship it directly to you. It must go through a CA FFL.

Your only chance (if it is not on the roster) is that it is > 50 years old or a listed C&R.

As a CA resident, you may be SOL.

I'm not trying to give out bad advice and if I'm wrong then please disregard.

I'm only going off of what I've done in the past...6-7 months ago. I called the Ca DOJ and they walked me through the previously mentioned process when I had a pistol shipped to me and registered.

[halifax]

I'm not trying to give out bad advice and if I'm wrong then please disregard.

I'm only going off of what I've done in the past...6-7 months ago. I called the Ca DOJ and they walked me through the previously mentioned process when I had a pistol shipped to me and registered.

WOW! Unless your handgun was willed to you (someone actually died), then the DOJ walked you through several felonies and a Federal offense.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I'm not trying to give out bad advice and if I'm wrong then please disregard.

I'm only going off of what I've done in the past...6-7 months ago. I called the Ca DOJ and they walked me through the previously mentioned process when I had a pistol shipped to me and registered.

They told you to violate federal law. FFLs cannot ship over state lines to anyone but an FFL...period. Private citizens can only ship to FFLs and themselves. CA law says you can't buy guns in another state and that you must go through a background check here in order to take possession.

I would call back the DOJ and ask again. See what a different agent tells you.

Back to the OP. Here is how I would look at it. If the gun is rostered have it sent in to an FFL. Where it comes from is completely inconsequential. Second, if the gun's serial numbers were reported stolen, this is your opportunity to help someone get their guns back. Since your friend is just giving it to you, you won't be out any money and someone might get their prized possession back. If the cops come calling, then you just send them to your friend. Your friend just says he bought them from a guy 25 years ago and he didn't know they were stolen and he is glad that he knows know so they can be returned to the rightful owner.

They are probably not stolen unless you are leaving something out.

[Call_me_Tom]

WOW! Unless your handgun was willed to you (someone actually died), then the DOJ walked you through several felonies and a Federal offense.

The weapon was willed to me but Ca DOJ wasn't even concerned about that. They didn't really care much about how I received it, they were more concerned about it not being stolen and having its serial number on their books.

[halifax]

The weapon was willed to me but Ca DOJ wasn't even concerned about that. They didn't really care much about how I received it, they were more concerned about it not being stolen and having its serial number on their books.

It may have appeared that they weren't concerned about your acquisition being by bequeath, but that is the only way they could have legally done it the way they did.

Think about it: If transferring any firearm from out of state were as easy as you proposed, the CA restrictions currently on the books would be nearly worthless. Everyone would be doing it.

[JaMail]

there are always exceptions, nothing is written in stone..

exception 1

If i send my SA 1911 to SA to have the trigger done, they can ship directly back to me..

Sent by an FFL directly to my house..


exception 2

if you have your C&R, and the handgun is a C&R, you can meet up with the gentleman, buy the gun for 1.00 bring it back regardless, and register it. if someone were offering me a 1911 for free, in good condition, i would fly out there and back with my new gun in a heart beat.


if it turns out its stolen, then he says he bought it 25 years ago, doesnt remember from whom, and the gun gets confiscated and returned to the owner..

[Librarian]

The weapon was willed to me but Ca DOJ wasn't even concerned about that. They didn't really care much about how I received it, they were more concerned about it not being stolen and having its serial number on their books.

Ah, that's a kettle of fish of a different color.

Inheritance is an exception to the interstate FFL rule. OPLAW form would be fine.

[cynicism]Not that I'd expect CA-DOJ to actually think about that... [/cynicism]

[halifax]

exception 2

if you have your C&R, you can meet up with the gentleman, buy the gun for 1.00 bring it back regardless, and register it. if someone were offering me a 1911 for free, in good condition, i would fly out there and back with my new gun in a heart beat.

Is that really how out of state C&R handgun purchases are legally done for CA 03FFLs?

[Malthusian]

After you bring the 1911 C&R into CA, it still needs to be DROSd

Correct me here if I am wrong

[JaMail]

no DROS needed, i dont remember the exact time limit, but you have somethig on the order of 10 days to register it with california.. so you could fly to J&G's, buy 5 or 6 C&R pistols, ship them to your house, and then you fill out this form for each one.
read page 2.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/curioapp.pdf

and if your have your C&R + your COE, you dont even have to do a 10 day wait IN california when buying a C&R handgun.


CA Penal Code 12078
(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077.
(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

[Cokebottle]

Is that really how out of state C&R handgun purchases are legally done for CA 03FFLs?

After you bring the 1911 C&R into CA, it still needs to be DROSd

Correct me here if I am wrong

Basically, yes.

An 03FFL can physically travel out of state and purchase firearms over 50 years old following the local laws of the state that they are in.
That means that if NY is cash and carry for handguns over 50 y/o, then you can cash and carry.

If NY is like CA and requires DROS for handguns, then you must follow that procedure.
The 03 allows you to buy out of state, but you still must follow the laws of the state you are purchasing in.

Once you get the gun back to California, handguns must then be registered (it's technically not a DROS, which is "Dealer Record Of Sale"). Cost is $19 per handgun, no declaration is needed for long guns (yet).

Long guns, since CA does not require registration (yet), CAN be shipped directly to an 03FFL (for now).

[Cokebottle]

no DROS needed, i dont remember the exact time limit, but you have somethig on the order of 10 days to register it with california.. so you could fly to J&G's, buy 5 or 6 C&R pistols, ship them to your house, and then you fill out this form for each one.

You can physically bring them back with you as long as they are packaged properly for air transport (or you can drive them home).