question about stolen firearms

[pullnshoot25]

So how does an ffl determine if a firearm is stolen? Does an ffl have access to a special database? Does an ffl have to run a dros first?

Curiosity pervades me.

[pullnshoot25]

Seriously? No one?

*Crickets*

[tenpercentfirearms]

There are two ways for me to find out if a gun is stolen. #1: on handguns run it through DROS. If the serial number is stolen, then I will get a delay response. #2: call the local PD and ask them to run a number to see if it is stolen.

That is it.

[pullnshoot25]

Could you be more specific? What is the scenario? FFL assumes the weapon is stolen and contacts the A.T.F.? Stolen while in transit to the FFL? Stolen after FFL took possession?

I am not a FFL, but I could tell you, the A.T.F. would have all your answers.

Besides, its only stolen if someone reports it so.

Scenario: You have a gun that you want to buy (say, a C&R rifle) but you want to make sure that it is not stolen before you go through with the purchase.

There are two ways for me to find out if a gun is stolen. #1: on handguns run it through DROS. If the serial number is stolen, then I will get a delay response. #2: call the local PD and ask them to run a number to see if it is stolen.

^^Perfect. This is EXACTLY what I needed to know.

That is it.

[kemasa]

Unfortunately, the BATF does not keep a database of stolen firearms that is made available to FFLs or to non-law enforcement. Local law enforcement do keep track of stolen firearms, but it is not centralized. Personally, I think that a central database of stolen firearms would be a good thing, but how do you get someone with the resources to do it?

I think that one reason why people did not answer is due to the fact that the request could be an attempt to figure out how to sell a stolen firearm without getting caught.

[pullnshoot25]

Unfortunately, the BATF does not keep a database of stolen firearms. Local law enforcement do keep track of stolen firearms, but it is not centralized. Personally, I think that a central database of stolen firearms would be a good thing, but how do you get someone with the resources to do it?

I think that one reason why people did not answer is due to the fact that the request could be an attempt to figure out how to sell a stolen firearm without getting caught.

So basically... the DOJ does not have a list of stolen firearms that can be checked? What happens if someone is DROS'd a stolen firearm in another locale?

I ask these questions for purely legitimate reasons. Given my documented propensity for following even the most asinine of laws, I think that any conjectures about the information I seek being for shady purposes, especially on a public board that is read by every government underling this side of hell, is a little far-fetched.

[kemasa]

I think the DOJ might have a list, but they do not tell people or FFLs about it, so it can not be used for long guns. It is nothing that is public.

A long gun DROS does not have the serial number. If the DOJ checks the serial numbers for stolen handguns and if they share the information with the place that it was reported stolen, then it should get flagged.

I am not saying that the reason why you are asking is shady, but that it is an area in which people may not want to answer. One would not want to give anyone an idea on a public forum as to how they might be able to sell a stolen firearm and get away with it, regardless of what your intent is.

[warbird]

The real question is whether you are looking to see if the gun was reported stolen or is the person you are buying it from the last recorded owner of record through the DROS process. Many guns have still been sold without the DROS being done over the last decade in this state and while the gun might not be stolen, sold on a written bill of sale, the sale would not be reflected in the DROS records. But it isn't a stolen gun either. And not all local agencies have turned in every stolen gun report. There are a couple of sites on the internet where you can go https://www.stolenweapon.com/Stolen-Gun-Search.html or http://www.hotgunz.com/. There are others as well in addition to law enforcement only lists.

[pullnshoot25]

I think the DOJ might have a list, but they do not tell people or FFLs about it, so it can not be used for long guns. It is nothing that is public.

A long gun DROS does not have the serial number. If the DOJ checks the serial numbers for stolen handguns and if they share the information with the place that it was reported stolen, then it should get flagged.

I am not saying that the reason why you are asking is shady, but that it is an area in which people may not want to answer. One would not want to give anyone an idea on a public forum as to how they might be able to sell a stolen firearm and get away with it, regardless of what your intent is.

Fair enough, fair enough. Hmmph...

[halifax]

NCIC is the FBI's database that includes stolen firearms but access is only available to LE.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I think that one reason why people did not answer is due to the fact that the request could be an attempt to figure out how to sell a stolen firearm without getting caught.

I am not quite sure why anyone would be concerned about this. The easiest way to buy a stolen firearm without getting caught is to give the guy the money and take the gun. If that isn't obvious to you readers out there, then we are definitely drawing from the bottom of the pool here.

I think he has a legitimate concern that he is buying a gun from a guy and he doesn't want to buy a stolen gun.

Another option is to tell the seller (whether it is a handgun or a long gun) that you will not pay him until the gun clears background. Think of the FFL as an escrow agent. The gun sits in a ten day escrow and when it clears, you will give him the money. You might even ask the FFL to hold onto the money in an envelope and when it clears, the seller can come pick it up.

Now only handguns are going to get caught this way, but if you know anyone in law enforcement, you might ask a favor to run the serial number on a long gun. If it comes up stolen, then drop a dime and the police can go recover a stolen gun from the dealer. You might be out the $35 for a PPT, but someone gets their gun back and you get your money back from the dealer. Sucks to be the seller, but hey, don't deal in stolen firearms.

I generally don't care if guns are stolen or not as there isn't much I can do about it unless someone comes in and says their guns were stolen and to keep an eye out. However, the idea of helping someone get their property back does excite me because I know how much that must hurt to have something taken from you. If I could help get it returned, I would be game.

[kemasa]

Wes, please read what was said and try to understand the issues involved. It is not about how to buy a stolen firearm, as that is easy to as you know what is involved. The real issue involved is how to sell a stolen firearm without getting caught. It is assumed that the seller knows whether the firearm is stolen and that the buyer does not.

Yes, it is a concern when you buy a firearm from a person. What you don't want to do is to give information to a person who wants to sell a stolen firearm to make it easier for them to sell such a firearm. If the firearm is unique and can be spotted by just the pictures, then the person would have to be more careful. On the other hand, if the firearm is common, you don't want to tell a person how they can sell the firearm as if it were not stolen. You want them to try to sell it in a way that the buyer would assume that there is some issue with it.

I personally care if guns are stolen as I don't want to get involved in such things and you should feel the same way too. While there is not much that I can do about it, I will not do a transfer if it seems that there is some issue with the firearm. Asking questions can help to catch people with stolen firearms.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Wes, please read what was said and try to understand the issues involved. It is not about how to buy a stolen firearm, as that is easy to as you know what is involved. The real issue involved is how to sell a stolen firearm without getting caught. It is assumed that the seller knows whether the firearm is stolen and that the buyer does not.

Yes, it is a concern when you buy a firearm from a person. What you don't want to do is to give information to a person who wants to sell a stolen firearm to make it easier for them to sell such a firearm. If the firearm is unique and can be spotted by just the pictures, then the person would have to be more careful. On the other hand, if the firearm is common, you don't want to tell a person how they can sell the firearm as if it were not stolen. You want them to try to sell it in a way that the buyer would assume that there is some issue with it.

I personally care if guns are stolen as I don't want to get involved in such things and you should feel the same way too. While there is not much that I can do about it, I will not do a transfer if it seems that there is some issue with the firearm. Asking questions can help to catch people with stolen firearms.

Again, it is pretty much common sense that if you sell a long gun and no serial number is submitted, it could be stolen and no one would ever know. I am not sure how talking about it in this thread makes it less of a secret when we do nothing but tell people there is no long gun registration in all of the other threads.

Just take the flip side, this thread is how to protect yourself from buying a stolen gun. And possibly, if you suspect it is stolen, a way to get it in the dealers hand, notify police, and get that firearm returned to its rightful owner at only a potential cost of $35.

[jksupplyco]

The Automated Firearms System is Californias database for firearms. If I recall correctly, it can be accessed through the CLETS system by Law Enforcement. Obviously in Ca, if a handgun serial is run in the AFS, it will come back with a registered owner, not so much for long guns. However, if a long gun is reported stolen, and the agency that takes the report imputs that info into the AFS, the long gun becomes flagged as stolen, providing the reporting party had a serial number to report. If by chance you purchased a stolen long gun that had been reported by serial number as such, and you got through the DROS process, you may never know that you were in possession of a stolen firearm, nor would anyone else for that matter. Now, if by unfortunate circumstance, you had interaction with an LEO that ran the serial numbers in the AFS, and it came back stolen, you may have issues. You would however, likely be absolved from liability for said stolen property, as the FFL that facilitated the PPT would have record of where, when, and from whom the long gun was transfered.

[halifax]

If FFLs can provide a service for LE, why is LE so adverse to running numbers for FFLs?