Inter family gun transfer question

[Rally Dave]

Ok, I have a buddy with question about a gun transfer....

My friend is married to a wonderful woman who's father has a ton of guns. He was wondering if he can have a long gun gifted to him. He also wants to know if he can have a handgun gifted to him.

I was under the impression that this CANNOT happen since he is not direct family....only family through marriage.

So the question is: Can the his father-in-law gift the guns to his daugher (the wife) and the can she gift the gun to her husband?

[CA Gun Laws Suck]

He can give them to his daughter and since they are married that should be fine.

[lorax3]

The Calguns Wiki has a page that addresses this.

[tenpercentfirearms]

The long guns can be transferred this way, from father to daughter and from daughter to husband. No paperwork, no fees.

If I were you I would just have the father do an intrafamilial to the daughter and call it good since it is $19 for as many handguns as you want.

[Rally Dave]

Ok, thanks for all the help guys!

[Mssr. Eleganté]

So the question is: Can the his father-in-law gift the guns to his daugher (the wife) and the can she gift the gun to her husband?

Intra-family "double gifting" is illegal if it is done to avoid doing a PPT between the father-in-law and the husband. It is also illegal if all of the parties are not residents of the same State.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Intra-family "double gifting" is illegal if it is done to avoid doing a PPT between the father-in-law and the husband. It is also illegal if all of the parties are not residents of the same State.

Care to quote any code or federal law that says in state this is illegal?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Care to quote any code or federal law that says in state this is illegal?

It's in the California Penal Code...

(4) No person, corporation, or dealer shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to any person whom he or she knows or has cause to believe is not the actual purchaser or transferee of the firearm, or to any person who is not the person actually being loaned the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:

(A) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).

(B) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the requirements of any exemption to the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).

(5) No person, corporation, or dealer shall acquire a firearm for the purpose of selling, transferring, or loaning the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:

(A) In the case of a dealer, intent to violate subdivision (b) or (c).

(B) In any other case, intent to avoid either of the following:

(i) The provisions of subdivision (d).

(ii) The requirements of any exemption to the provisions of subdivision (d).

[tenpercentfirearms]

It's in the California Penal Code...

Let's post the whole code.

12072(a)(4) No person, corporation, or dealer shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to any person whom he or she knows or has cause to believe is not the actual purchaser or transferee of the firearm, or to any person who is not the person actually being loaned the firearm, if the person, corporation, or dealer has either of the following:
(A) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).
(B) Knowledge that the firearm is to be subsequently loaned, sold, or transferred to avoid the requirements of any exemption to the provisions of subdivision (c) or (d).

12072(c) No dealer, whether or not acting pursuant to Section 12082, shall deliver a firearm to a person, as follows:
(1) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after notice by the department pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12076, within 10 days of the submission to the department of any correction to the application, or within 10 days of the submission to the department of any fee required pursuant to subdivision (e) of Section 12076, whichever is later.
(2) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a locked container.
(3) Unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents clear evidence of his or her identity and age, as defined in Section 12071, to the dealer.
(4) Whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice that the person is in a prohibited class described in Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(5)(A) Commencing April 1, 1994, and until January 1, 2003, no pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person shall be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents to the dealer a basic firearms safety certificate.
(B) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun shall be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the handgun presents a handgun safety certificate to the dealer.
(6) No pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person shall be delivered whenever the dealer is notified by the Department of Justice that within the preceding 30-day period the purchaser has made another application to purchase a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and that the previous application to purchase involved none of the entities specified in subparagraph (B) of paragraph (9) of subdivision (a).
(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

First, this specifies you cannot sell or transfer guns to people who are not the actual purchaser or transferor.

However, scroll down to PC 12078.

12078(c)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.
(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.
(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships:
(A) Parent and child.
(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

12078(c) states that 12072(d) does not apply to immediate family members. So how can you get me for 12072(a)(4)(a) if the transaction is exempt from 12072(d)? By lawfully exempting yourself from 12072(d) through 12078(c) are you trying to avoiding the requirements of any exemption like the exemption in 12078(c)? I would say no since when you transfer the firearm to an immediate family member, you are not required to follow 12072(d). Since you are not required, then you are not avoiding 12072(d) as you don't need to avoid something you are not required to do.

Next comes the actual logical provisions of the section. By filing your intrafamilial transfer form on handguns for both the brother to mother and then the mother to the other brother, the CA DOJ should be doing a background and registering that handgun in each case. Both people are being backgrounded.

I still contend it is much easier to just do a PPT.