Define a Gun Show Sale

[ugimports]

What of my scenarios below is a "Gun Show Sale" as deemed on the 4473 and DROS:

Scenario 1:
Customer purchase firearm from me online. They know I'll be at the Gun Show the following the weekend and elect to fill out their 4473 and DROS at the show.

Scenario 2:
Customer purchases a gun from a retailer dealer at the show, but is missing some documentation. I take possession of the gun, but they come to my shop in Fremont to DROS/4473.

Scenario 3:
Customer purchases gun at gun show. I handle the transfer and they do their 4473 and DROS at Gun Show. They let their DROS expire because they are buying another rifle from out of state and are having me to do their transfer. They elect to re-do the 4473 and DROS all 4 long guns on one set of paperwork with me in Fremont after the new rifle arrives.

Input appreciated.

For 1 I've been saying No, for 2 I've been saying Yes, for 3, well that just came up and is what caused me to post this.

Thanks,

[kemasa]

1) Yes 2) No 3) No

If you do the paperwork at the Gun Show, then it is a Gun Show Sale. You might want to confirm that with the BATF, but that is my opinion. Where and how they pay does not matter, it is the paperwork that counts.

Just about opposite from what you have been saying :-).

[ugimports]

Ooh, let me throw in a wrinkle:

Scenario 4:
Customer purchases from me online, comes to Fremont does their 4473 and DROS. Then they come pickup the firearm at the Gun Show.

[kemasa]

To be safe, since part of the transfer occurs at the Gun Show, I personally would mark the location.

[ugimports]

I shot off the question to the ATF and am going to see what they come back with.

In regards to the DROS, is it ok if I just cross out No and write in Yes? Or do I have to cancel/redo the DROS in something like Scenario 4 which then would make it impossible for them to pickup at the show.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I shot off the question to the ATF and am going to see what they come back with.

In regards to the DROS, is it ok if I just cross out No and write in Yes? Or do I have to cancel/redo the DROS in something like Scenario 4 which then would make it impossible for them to pickup at the show.

On little things like that, I just cross out the error and write in the correct information. So if I meant to say it was a gun show sale for DROS, but put no, I just cross it off on the hard copy and write in yes.

Call the DOJ and they will tell you to restart the DROS because they want another $25 out of you.

[kemasa]

If you were to re-submit the DROS, then the person would not be able to pick it up at the gunshow, so it would not be a gun show sale :-).

For the DROS, it was not a gunshow sale since it was submitted at your location. I am not sure of how they would feel about it as it is a strange situation. You might mark that it was delivered at the gunshow on the 4473.

[tenpercentfirearms]

For the DROS, it was not a gunshow sale since it was submitted at your location. I am not sure of how they would feel about it as it is a strange situation. You might mark that it was delivered at the gunshow on the 4473.

So you consider it that if I sell the gun at the gun show, but don't have online access, and wait to get back to the shop to start, that isn't a gun show sale since the DROS was started back at the shop?

I would think the opposite, but I am not going to argue with you as I see the whole rationale for putting down whether I sold it at a gun show or not moot. Plus that just gives everyone one more excuse if you get audited and they say something.

"Oh I didn't start the DROS until I got back to the shop, so I didn't think it was a gun show sale." Nice. [and that isn't sarcasm. Seriously, great idea.]

[kemasa]

No, it is a gun show sale because the DROS worksheet was signed at the gun show, since otherwise you could not submit the DROS without the buyer present. If the buyer filled out a DROS worksheet at the show, that is where the DROS was started. The information can be submitted later.

If you "sell" the firearm at the show, but do not do any paperwork at the show, other than a receipt, and have the buyer come to your shop and fill out the 4473 there and submit the DROS, print it out and have the person sign it, then I would not consider it a gun show sale. The "sale", to me, is where the paperwork is processed.

Remember, there is no place to show that it was a phone sale, Internet sale, etc. You have to do the paperwork in person, so that determines what it is to me.

[ugimports]

You can only show firearms at the gun show.

In Response To:

I had a question on when I should be documenting a Gun Show Sale on my 4473s. Here are few scenarios I've run into so far:

Scenario 1:
Customer purchase firearm from me online. They know I'll be at the Gun Show the following the weekend and elect to fill out their 4473 and DROS at the show.

Scenario 2:
Customer purchases a gun from a retailer dealer at the show, but is missing some documentation. I take possession of the gun, but they come to my shop in Fremont to DROS/4473.

Scenario 3:
Customer purchases gun at gun show. I handle the transfer and they do their 4473 and DROS at Gun Show. They let their DROS expire because they are buying another rifle from out of state and are having me to do their transfer. They elect to re-do the 4473 and DROS all 4 long guns on one set of paperwork with me in Fremont after the new rifle arrives.

Scenario 4:
Customer purchases from me online, comes to Fremont does their 4473 and DROS. Then they come pickup the firearm at the Gun Show.

Here's what I've been answering:
Scenario 1: No to gun show sale.
Scenario 2: Yes to gun show sale.
Scenario 3: This just come up so I wans't sure
Scenario 4: No to gun show sale.

Please let me know if I've been doing this correctly or how I should be answering the question based on the different scenarios I've encountered. I was under the assumption that where the person is paying for the firearm constitutes where the sale took place vs. where they are actually filling out the paperwork.

Now, I'm asking for clarification, but I think the agent may think I was referring to attending Gun Shows outside of the state of CA, but we'll see.