Shipping Directly to C&R Licensee OK?

[eltee]

I checked and searched and I think this is OK, but ... can a California FFL ship a rifle that is listed on the BATFE C&R list directly to a person out of state who holds a current / valid C&R license? I looked and it seems OK, but I wanted to be sure I didn't overlook some restriction.

[kemasa]

I don't know of any reason why not. They are a FFL and the firearm meets the requirements. You can ship a C&R handgun to others outside of CA, unless there is a law against it, like in CA. Depending on where they live, there could be a law which prevents it, but that is impossible for you to know and they are required to know the laws in their area.

[eltee]

Is there something like EZcheck for C&R licenses?

[ke6guj]

nope.

you used to be able to EZ-check an 03, but some 03's complained about the privacy aspect of being able to find an 03 by randomly entering numbers into EZ-check. So, ATF removed 03s from EZ-check.

I've read that you can call ATF and they'll confirm an 03 over the phone.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Yeah out of state you can. I am not sure about in state. I know 03s get DROSed out of the store, period. With COE they can skip the ten days.

[kemasa]

In-state you can ship a C&R non-handgun if they have a C&R FFL and CA COE.

[ke6guj]

In-state you can ship a C&R non-handgun if they have a C&R FFL and CA COE.

really?

so if I found a C&R long gun at a dealer on the other side of the state, I could send them my C&R+COE and they could ship it directly to me? What about the DROS requirement?

[kemasa]

As I recall, there is no DROS requirement for C&R firearms which are not handguns as long as you have the C&R FFL & CA DOJ COE. You should confirm this with the CA DOJ, which I have, but that assumes that you trust me :-).

This means you can have a C&R longgun shipped directly to you from anywhere. Some FFLs might not want to do that, especially CA FFLs, but they can also check with the CA DOJ to confirm this.

[ke6guj]

As I recall, there is no DROS requirement for C&R firearms which are not handguns as long as you have the C&R FFL & CA DOJ COE. You should confirm this with the CA DOJ, which I have, but that assumes that you trust me :-).

12078(t)(1) The waiting period described in Sections 12071 or 12072 shall not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor, by a dealer to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071. On the date that the delivery, sale, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in subdivision (b) or (c) of Section 12077.

I was under the assumption that 12077(b)&(c) still required the DROS be performed, even if you had the C&R+COE.

I have wondered if someone, with a C&R FFL, that buys a C&R firearm from a CA dealer must fill out a 4473, since it would be an FFL>FFL transfer at that point, and the feds shouldn't require a 4473 for that type of transfer. but I've been told that CA law required the 4473 be filed out, even for a FFL>FFL transfer.

[kemasa]

Well, I have not looked through all the penal code, but I did call the CA DOJ and was told the same as I remembered as being the case. It is a FFL to FFL transfer, but this only applies to non-handguns, which must be shipped to a 01 FFL, not a C&R FFL.

The C&R FFL can pickup firearms outside of the state, but must only report handguns.

12070. (a) No person shall sell, lease, or transfer firearms unless
he or she has been issued a license pursuant to Section 12071. Any
person violating this section is guilty of a misdemeanor.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not include any of the following:
(17) The delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic,
as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal
Regulations, by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto with a current
certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 12071 to a
dealer.

12072. (a)
(9) (A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than
one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed
upon the person within any 30-day period.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
(ix) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto and who has a
current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the
Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I've read that you can call ATF and they'll confirm an 03 over the phone.

That's right. You just call the BATFE EZ Check phone number...1-877-560-2435...and give them the license number and the address on the license. They will either let you know right then, or call you right back to say if the license is valid or not.


____________________________________________

I was under the assumption that 12077(b)&(c) still required the DROS be performed, even if you had the C&R+COE.

You assumed correctly. California C&R FFL's with a COE still have to go into the California Licensed Dealer to complete the DROS and pick up the firearm. C&R FFL's who reside out of state don't have to DROS. Here is a list of the people exempted from DROS...

CPC 12073. (a) As required by the Department of Justice, every dealer shall keep a register or record of electronic or telephonic transfer in which shall be entered the information prescribed in Section 12077.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following transactions:
(1) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun by a dealer to another dealer upon proof of compliance with the requirements of paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072.
((2) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to another dealer if that firearm is intended as merchandise in the receiving dealer's business upon proof of compliance with the requirements of paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072.
(3) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to a person licensed as an importer or manufacturer pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and any regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm by a dealer who sells, transfers, or delivers the firearm to a person who resides outside this state who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and any regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(5) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to a wholesaler if that firearm is being returned to the wholesaler and is intended as merchandise in the wholesaler's business.
(6) The delivery, sale, or transfer of an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun by a dealer to himself or herself.
(7) The loan of an unloaded firearm by a dealer who also operates a target facility which holds a business or regulatory license on the premises of the building designated in the license or whose building designated in the license is on the premises of any club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon established ranges, whether public or private, to a person at that target facility or club or organization, if the firearm is kept at all times within the premises of the target range or on the premises of the club or organization.
(8) The delivery of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to a gunsmith for service or repair.
(9) The return of an unloaded firearm to the owner of that firearm by a dealer, if the owner initially delivered the firearm to the dealer for service or repair.
(10) The loan of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to a person who possesses a valid entertainment firearms permit issued pursuant to Section 12081, for use solely as a prop in a motion picture, television, video, theatrical, or other entertainment production or event.
(11) The loan of an unloaded firearm by a dealer to a consultant-evaluator, if the loan does not exceed 45 days from the date of delivery of the firearm by the dealer to the consultant-evaluator.
(c) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

__________________________________________

I have wondered if someone, with a C&R FFL, that buys a C&R firearm from a CA dealer must fill out a 4473, since it would be an FFL>FFL transfer at that point, and the feds shouldn't require a 4473 for that type of transfer. but I've been told that CA law required the 4473 be filed out, even for a FFL>FFL transfer.

A Form 4473 is not required when a California Licensed Dealer disposes of a C&R firearm to a C&R FFL from any State. Like you said, the 4473 is only a Federal requirement when disposing to non-FFL's.

[tenpercentfirearms]

Well, I have not looked through all the penal code, but I did call the CA DOJ and was told the same as I remembered as being the case. It is a FFL to FFL transfer, but this only applies to non-handguns, which must be shipped to a 01 FFL, not a C&R FFL.

The C&R FFL can pickup firearms outside of the state, but must only report handguns.

I was told the opposite. I was told all guns I sell must be DROSed with the exception of law enforcement with that one specific letter. However, that letter was so complicated that they basically said don't even bother.

What you say makes sense that if it is a dealer to dealer transfer, we don't need to do a DROS. However, does a C&R count? We know for a fact their ten days can be waived, but can DROS? If DROS can't be waived, then can you ship them?

I hate this state and all of their rules.

Everyone call the DOJ tomorrow and lets see between the three or four of us how many answers we get.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

What you say makes sense that if it is a dealer to dealer transfer, we don't need to do a DROS. However, does a C&R count? We know for a fact their ten days can be waived, but can DROS? If DROS can't be waived, then can you ship them?.

No, a C&R FFL does not count, unless the C&R FFL resides outside of California.

[tenpercentfirearms]

No, a C&R FFL does not count, unless the C&R FFL resides outside of California.

That line you put above made it look like you had a long sig line. I just realized you answered to this. So I take it a C&R is "Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18".

[Mssr. Eleganté]

That line you put above made it look like you had a long sig line. I just realized you answered to this. So I take it a C&R is "Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18".

Sorry about the line. It was hard to read without the line too, since the two quotes were right next to each other. "Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18" just means any type of FFL.