ATF and log book

[Marauder2003]

Watching YT vids about what is going on in Illinois with the new gun registration laws. Cites an unsubstantiated report of ATF visiting a Paris, IL FFL and copying the log book entries for folks that bought a semi-auto rifle. Supposedly they are giving the info to Illinois.

Are ATF allowed to bulk copy log book contents?

[Tyke8319]

I have not heard of any law to the contrary. But, I suspect there is much more to the story.

[Marauder2003]

I was given this elsewhere.

https://fflconsultinggroup.com/firearms-record-books-atf-form-4473-and-atfs-authority-to-copy-records/

27 CFR 478.23(d)
The inspections and examinations
provided by this section do not authorize
an ATF officer to seize any records or
documents other than those records or
documents constituting material evidence
of a violation of law. If an ATF officer
seizes such records or documents, copies
shall be provided to the licensee within a
reasonable time.

I would think that they can look for violations by the FFL or possibly a 4473 submitter. But a violation of Illinois law is not in their purview.

[Tyke8319]

Well, the records were not seized, just copied. Ill. law may not be in their purview but that doesn't mean they must ignore a potential violation of law. Which, we don't know if there was or was not.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I have heard that Federal law requires FFLs to follow all state laws. So the Feds can actually write you up for not doing state law correctly. That is why when an out of CA FFL sells a gun to a CA resident for delivery in that state, even though they do not think they are breaking Federal law, they are when they break CA law.

So as a dealer you could always tell them no, but they might come back and make you pay for it.

I would take anything and everything you see on YT with a grain of salt.

[Marauder2003]

1/1/24 Illinois required all semi-auto rifles to be registered. The before and immediately after 1/1 registration rate was abysmal. The FFL is stating ATF is copying the entries in his log book of folks who purchased semi-auto rifles. The Feds are apparently giving that info to the state so the data can be compared to the registered owner list.

The question is Is that proper for ATF to do? Should the ATF be feeding data to local governments to enable anti-2A enforcement?

[Tyke8319]

ATF is a Law Enforcement agency. Yes, perhaps it's "anti" but the law is the law. There is no procedural policy violation for exchanging information with allied agencies despite how seemingly improper you might feel it is.

[Marauder2003]

I believe the ATF can copy log entries if they are tracing a gun used in a crime or they are checking the FFL?s procedures.

Wholesale vacuuming of data is not what they are allowed to do.

ATF is a Law Enforcement agency. Yes, perhaps it's "anti" but the law is the law. There is no procedural policy violation for exchanging information with allied agencies despite how seemingly improper you might feel it is.

[Tyke8319]

If you can cite the alleged violation, go for it. Otherwise, your allegation is moot...