What am I missing here? Interstate Shipping of Off-Roster Handgun

[NewbieDoo]

Still new to the practice, so I can't see what I'm missing here. I'd appreciate CG's wisdom here.

Situation: I'm trying to gift (through FFLs) an off-roster handgun to a buddy in another state.

Background: A buddy of mine in Indiana is a long-time gun owner and has given me a lot of tips on shooting, maximizing range time, etc. as I ramp up my proficiency. He transferred me one of his old on-roster Glocks (through an FFL) for me to practice before buying my own. I'd like to return the favor...but as a non-LEO, the only things I can get here are on-roster. Enter online sales. I found an older pseudo-rare handgun on gunbroker I know he'd enjoy, but it's out-of-state and off-roster.

Problem: The seller (an FFL) said it can only ship to the winning bidder, so I can't pay for it and have it sent to an FFL in Indiana under his name. It has to send it local to me. So, I called my local FFL and they said they can't accept it from the seller and then send it to an FFL in Indiana because that would be a straw purchase, and I can't take possession because it's off-roster.

Here's what I don't understand: As long as it's going from an FFL to an FFL in Indiana (and assuming that FFL in Indiana goes through the proper steps before releasing it to my buddy), how is it not allowed? It's not like I'm using my background check and then just handing it to him. It would all be through FFLs and above board. Both the seller and my local are hesitant, so I must be missing something.

What am I missing?

Much appreciated!

[Tyke8319]

You probably looked into all this too late. Would have been better to determine the legalities before the bidding started. But you probably know all that by now.
No, you cannot take possession of an off roster handgun.
If the seller doesn't want to ship to another out-of-state FFL, that's his prerogative.
Should have had your friend bid on it, then reimburse him his cash outlay.
Maybe the seller will let you back out of the transaction...if your lucky. Unfortunately, the seller (though you say your friend's a good guy) has no idea if he will pass a background check and if for some reason he can't..now look at the mess that's been created.
Always good to inquire first before getting into complicated transactions.

[ugimports]

Paranoia -- what you're trying to do is technically legal.

However, to save yourself the aggravation, just give your buddy the $ and let him purchase direct or find a different local FFL that will re-ship. Since I don't know where you're at I can't give you a referral.

[Nardo1895]

I also believe its legal. It kind of "seems" like a straw purchase, but you can gift firearms so it should be legal.

While usually used to ship firearms into CA from a seller who won't ship here, I think someone offering Middleman services would also work. Give the seller the Middleman's FFL as your dealer and ship it in your name. The Middleman will then ship to your buddy's FFL. You will need to confirm your Buddy's FFL will accept it. And the seller needs to agree to ship to a FFL that isn't in your location.

Last time I used a Middleman it it cost me about $100 for their services plus the extra shipping. I think Wild Tactical was who I used last time. They are active on Calguns so I think you could search for them. I have had GB sellers who refused to ship to a Middleman so its not foolproof.

[NewbieDoo]

Unfortunately, the seller (though you say your friend's a good guy) has no idea if he will pass a background check and if for some reason he can't..now look at the mess that's been created.

Hadn't thought about this angle...but AFAIK, the seller wouldn't do background on anyone out of state, so whatever FFL they send it to, a failed background would mean the FFL sends it back to the seller and they'd get a restock fee. I do understand them wanting to make sure the paperwork matches up though, in case I try to say I paid for it but never received it.

Paranoia -- what you're trying to do is technically legal.

However, to save yourself the aggravation, just give your buddy the $ and let him purchase direct or find a different local FFL that will re-ship. Since I don't know where you're at I can't give you a referral.

That's what I was thinking, but wasn't sure. Doesn't quite feel like a gift to tell him to bid on it up to a certain price and then send him the $ (and he probably wouldn't accept the $, anyway)...but it's better than nothing.

I also believe its legal. It kind of "seems" like a straw purchase, but you can gift firearms so it should be legal.

...

Last time I used a Middleman it it cost me about $100 for their services plus the extra shipping. I think Wild Tactical was who I used last time. They are active on Calguns so I think you could search for them. I have had GB sellers who refused to ship to a Middleman so its not foolproof.

Thanks for the suggestion. Wild's a little far, but I'll reach out to a couple of other FFLs and see if they'll Middleman. Far's better than non-existent, though. Might be the first time in history someone would rather send to CA than somewhere else.


Appreciate the insight.

[Nardo1895]

Thanks for the suggestion. Wild's a little far, but I'll reach out to a couple of other FFLs and see if they'll Middleman. Far's better than non-existent, though. Might be the first time in history someone would rather send to CA than somewhere else.

It doesn't matter how far away the middleman is. I used Wild's AZ location. I'm in Central CA. Handled it over the phone and email. Seller shipped to them, they shipped to me (as a FFL). In your case seller would ship to them and they ship to your friend's FFL. Unless you're worried seller won't ship to a place not near you... In any case, if you can find a local FFL who would receive and then reship that would be best.

[rmfhi]

Greats and other


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[ronlglock]

Think eBay. Someone wins an auction and says to ship somewhere else which is not on record. Seller protection goes out the window.

So gun needs to ship to your attention and the FFL needs to verify it?s you for insurance to cover. Once it shows delivered to the dealer, insurance is done ? since it?s your responsibility to work with the local FFL.

However, the seller never sees the DROS, so a friendly FFL could ship it to another FFL for transfer. But it would smell off off, so while not a straw purchase (no 4473 or DROS) many FFLs won?t touch it.

[edgerly779]

Can never go to you in Ca so you have that part correct.

[NewbieDoo]

Think eBay. Someone wins an auction and says to ship somewhere else which is not on record. Seller protection goes out the window.

So gun needs to ship to your attention and the FFL needs to verify it?s you for insurance to cover. Once it shows delivered to the dealer, insurance is done ? since it?s your responsibility to work with the local FFL.

However, the seller never sees the DROS, so a friendly FFL could ship it to another FFL for transfer. But it would smell off off, so while not a straw purchase (no 4473 or DROS) many FFLs won?t touch it.

Lightbulb moment here. Hadn't considered the seller protection aspect and that someone might try to claim they didn't receive the item they paid for. Definitely better to protect the business (and the FFL) rather than make an exception for a one-time buyer they don't know from Adam.

Appreciate the knowledge exchange here.

[ugimports]

...
So gun needs to ship to your attention and the FFL needs to verify it?s you for insurance to cover. Once it shows delivered to the dealer, insurance is done ? since it?s your responsibility to work with the local FFL.
...

What are you referring to here? Many/most of the packages I receive only have my company name on the shipping label. What does the "To" on the label have to do with insurance?

All the seller has to show is that the package was delivered to the FFL that the buyer chose. Whether that buyer is 5 miles from their house or 500 miles from their house doesn't really matter.

Likewise, if I had someone contact me from Florida that said:
"Hey UG Imports, I want to gift my buddy in Fremont a rifle. Is it ok if I find one online, purchase it and ship to you?"

In fact, I've already processed a few similar transactions..I don't recall if the seller purchased from gunbroker, but I've had a few transfers where the recipient asked if it was ok for the firearm to be paid for by someone else because it was a gift/debt owed to them from a friend. They told me about it ahead of time so it was a non-issue to me.