Using ShipMyGun

[Chewy65]

Is a non-FFL required to declare the contents of a package as a handgun when it is dropped off at a UPS Customer Center. I believe one normally must declare such, but has that requirement been met if you are using ShipMyGun, a division of Buds.? A woman at SMG told me to just drop the labeled package off and decline to talk about the contents. Otherwise someone might think that I have to ship same day air.

[sass2924]

Private party is required to ship handguns Nextday. I guess you can ship them anyway you want and violate UPS terms of service and no one would be the wiser until it's lost or damaged and you try to file a claim.

[Chewy65]

Private party is required to ship handguns Nextday. I guess you can ship them anyway you want and violate UPS terms of service and no one would be the wiser until it's lost or damaged and you try to file a claim.

But does this violate UPS terms of service or is shipping as such pursuant to a deal with Buds? This is similar to when a manufacturer emails me a shipping label to send a firearm to it for warranty work. I would apply the label to the package and drop and take it to FedEx. The girl at the counter first said I needed more postage as it had to go next day air, but when I asked her to check with a super she found out that since it was shipping under the manufacturer's account second day air was good.

[SkyHawk]

Some manufacturers and large FFLs have their own arrangements with shipping companies, and this allows them to use LESS than next day air. Buds is such a provider.

When you use shipmygun.com, Buds is the shipper. Not you.

Also, there is no legal requirement to inform the shipper you are shipping a gun when you are shipping to a FFL. And shipmygun only ships to FFLs.

That means when you use shipmygun, you do not have to tell the carrier you are sending a gun, and the service will be 2nd day air.

Follow their instructions. They know what they are doing.

[SVT-40]

Just drop it off and make sure it's scanned.

[Chewy65]

Forget ShipMyGun and UPS

I went to the nearest UPS Customer Center, since it was impossible to get one on the phone, and was told I could not ship using ShipMyGun because I was not it and as a non-FFL it would not accept a firearm from me even if I paid next day air. I was told that is its policy since the beginning of this year. If Buds or another FFL wants to ship it will have to call UPS for a pickup at their location. FWIW, this is what it says on the UPS web site:

Firearms (including handguns) may be shipped only through a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account using various UPS pickup services, or through a UPS Customer Center

When I got home I send a message to ShipMyGun asking for an explanation, over its site. Three business days later no reply. I am thoroughly disgusted with busguns dba SMG

[SkyHawk]

I went to the nearest UPS Customer Center, since it was impossible to get one on the phone, and was told I could not ship using ShipMyGun because I was not it and as a non-FFL it would not accept a firearm from me even if I paid next day air. I was told that is its policy since the beginning of this year. If Buds or another FFL wants to ship it will have to call UPS for a pickup at their location. FWIW, this is what it says on the UPS web site:

UPS will accept firearms from individuals. If that is not true, then why haven't they updated their publicly stated policy? Did you ask them about this?

https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page?loc=en_US

UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation only in the following cases:

(b) Where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state or local law, such as:
(i) from an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
(ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual.

Let's boil that down to the important part: "UPS accepts packages containing firearms for transportation from an individual to a licensed dealer"

It seems more likely than not, the person you spoke with was misinformed. You spoke with a random worker, on a random day, at a random location. Sorry, but that is not authoritative.

UPS has 534,000 employees worldwide. What do you think the odds are that every single one or even a large fraction know the intimate details of the corporate firearm shipping policy? What do you think your odds are of randomly finding the few who do?

Also, there is no law that requires you to inform the carrier when shipping a gun to a licensee. I don't understand why people are so eager to blab about the gun they are shipping, to a counter worker

Company policy may require you to verbally inform about a handgun, but what record of that is kept? There isn't one...

[1911-CV]

Law About Notifying Shipper

I saw this (below) on the ATF site is it correct?

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

[Chewy65]

UPS will accept firearms from individuals. If that is not true, then why haven't they updated their publicly stated policy? Did you ask them about this? Since when is it the job of a customer to argue with the UPS clerk? There were two of them and the one I was talking with was called into the back (apparently so as to shut him down).

https://www.ups.com/us/en/support/shipping-support/shipping-special-care-regulated-items/prohibited-items/firearms.page?loc=en_US

Let's boil that down to the important part: "UPS accepts packages containing firearms for transportation from an individual to a licensed dealer"

It seems more likely than not, the person you spoke with was misinformed. You spoke with a random worker, on a random day, at a random location. Sorry, but that is not authoritative. The clerk's argument was that I was not shipping to a FFL, but that a FFL (SMG) was shipping and I was not with that FFL. Whether or not it is authoritative as to what UPS should do, it is pretty authoritative as to that paritcular encounter.

UPS has 534,000 employees worldwide. What do you think the odds are that every single one or even a large fraction know the intimate details of the corporate firearm shipping policy? What do you think your odds are of randomly finding the few who do? From what I heard when I first contacted SMG, this seems to be a common problem with UPS. That they won't take the gun with the SMG label from people.

Also, there is no law that requires you to inform the carrier when shipping a gun to a licensee. I don't understand why people are so eager to blab about the gun they are shipping, to a counter worker

Company policy may require you to verbally inform about a handgun, but what record of that is kept? There isn't one...

I wouldn't know, but if I was advising management there would be some kind of record. So you are saying that no record is kept of packages which the shipper designates as containing firearms?

[Chewy65]

I saw this (below) on the ATF site is it correct?

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

I don't believe 478.31 applies if you are shipping to a license dealer. 478.30 doesn't apply here, as it deals with shipments between non licensees.

[SkyHawk]

I wouldn't know, but if I was advising management there would be some kind of record. So you are saying that no record is kept of packages which the shipper designates as containing firearms?

I'm just saying that corporate policy requires you to verbally notify the "driver or clerk". In most cases you will not be notifying management, and also likely there will be no audio recording.

When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.

[SkyHawk]

I saw this (below) on the ATF site is it correct?

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

The ATF FAQ is an incomplete 'highlight' of the law if you will.

Here is the actual law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.31

to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.

That says the law regarding notification to the carrier only applies when shipping to a non-licensee

[Chewy65]

ShipMyGun (actually budsgunshop.com) finally responded. Its email says that California is a gun unfriendly state and "a lot" of the UPS locations do not like to take firearm shipments from anyone other then a FFL, but it hsd a contract with UPS to ship firearms using our service.

It sounds like buds is happy to selll labels to Californians while it knows they may prove to be worthless.

[Chewy65]

To be clear what Buds is telling customers to do I got it in writing.

Using the "dropbox" is not recommended. You have to go into the center to get a receipt.

Tell them you just neeed to drop this off and need a receipt. If asked what is inside you can say you are shipping something else. They are not supposed to open the package to see inside. (Was I being told to lie? The law may not require one to declare the contents being shipped to a FFL, but is not declaring the same as intentionally misrepresenting? Especially when asked about firearms.)

This from the same Buds rep who had previously told me that the problem was that some UPS employees don't understand the arrangement between UPS and it.

[sass2924]

Did you go to a UPS customer counter or a UPS store?