Locks for PPT of pistols?

[jlh95811]

This question is probably not what you think.
I've done quite a few transfers of pistols lately. I know that it must have a lock. But what if it comes with one?
I'm not going to mention the FFL holders by name just in case. I've actually had one not ask for a lock and no mention of one on pickup day but that's another story.
One store I've done 2 transfers at uses the lock it comes in with from the other party. One store says they log it as OEM. And one store says I must have a lock with a receipt no older than 30 days.
More stores do it than don't in my experience.
So which way is right?

[SVT-40]

A secure gun storage or safety device is required with the sale, delivery, or transfer of a handgun to a nonlicensee. This provision does not apply to the transfer of handguns to any Federal firearms licensee, nor does it apply to the following:

The handgun’s manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by, the United States, a department or agency of the United States, a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State; or

The handgun’s transfer to, or possession by, a law enforcement officer employed by an entity referred to in paragraph (a) for law enforcement purposes (whether on or off duty);



BATFE does not care if the lock arrives with the handgun from the original owner on a PPT. It's just required to leave with one. It's usually just noted on the DROS form as "COMES WITH LOCK".

Or a copy of the receipt showing a purchase of a lock the day of pick up.

[ke6guj]

A secure gun storage or safety device is required with the sale, delivery, or transfer of a handgun to a nonlicensee. This provision does not apply to the transfer of handguns to any Federal firearms licensee, nor does it apply to the following:

hmm, I wonder if that applies to C&R FFLs as well for all handguns, C&R or modern? If so, one could possibly supply a copy of the C&R to satisfy the feds and then do a Safe Affidavit to satisfy CADOJ.

BATFE does not care if the lock arrives with the handgun from the original owner on a PPT. It's just required to leave with one. It's usually just noted on the DROS form as "COMES WITH LOCK".

Or a copy of the receipt showing a purchase of a lock the day of pick up.

correct, BATFE doesn't care where it comes from, just that it leaves with a lock. So why couldn't a person supply a lock (without a <30-day receipt) to satisfy the federal requirements and fill out a Safe Affidavit to satisfy CADOJ?

[SVT-40]

hmm, I wonder if that applies to C&R FFLs as well for all handguns, C&R or modern? If so, one could possibly supply a copy of the C&R to satisfy the feds and then do a Safe Affidavit to satisfy CADOJ.


correct, BATFE doesn't care where it comes from, just that it leaves with a lock. So why couldn't a person supply a lock (without a <30-day receipt) to satisfy the federal requirements and fill out a Safe Affidavit to satisfy CADOJ?

Because BATFE says that does not comply with the law.

The law requires the lock to be furnished to the handgun purchaser. Not the other way around.

[bohoki]

Because BATFE says that does not comply with the law.

The law requires the lock to be furnished to the handgun purchaser. Not the other way around.

this is why before you arrive at the ffl for the ppt you tape a project childsafe lock on the pistolcontainer

[ke6guj]

Because BATFE says that does not comply with the law.

The law requires the lock to be furnished to the handgun purchaser. Not the other way around.

Here is the pertinent section of the law,

922(z) Secure Gun Storage or Safety Device.— (1) In general.— Except as provided under paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer to sell, deliver, or transfer any handgun to any person other than any person licensed under this chapter, unless the transferee is provided with a secure gun storage or safety device (as defined in section 921 (a)(34)) for that handgun.
(2) Exceptions.— Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—
(A)
(i) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by, the United States, a department or agency of the United States, a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, of a handgun; or
(ii) the transfer to, or possession by, a law enforcement officer employed by an entity referred to in clause (i) of a handgun for law enforcement purposes (whether on or off duty); or
(B) the transfer to, or possession by, a rail police officer employed by a rail carrier and certified or commissioned as a police officer under the laws of a State of a handgun for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);
(C) the transfer to any person of a handgun listed as a curio or relic by the Secretary pursuant to section 921 (a)(13); or
(D) the transfer to any person of a handgun for which a secure gun storage or safety device is temporarily unavailable for the reasons described in the exceptions stated in section 923 (e), if the licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer delivers to the transferee within 10 calendar days from the date of the delivery of the handgun to the transferee a secure gun storage or safety device for the handgun.

OK, ignoring state law for a moment, it appears that C&R FFLs and LEOs (for LE-related handguns) are exempt from the federal handgun lock rule. And C&R handguns are exempt from the federal handgun lock rule for everyone. So, if you are exempt from the federal law, you then only have to comply with state law, and those exempted people and handguns could comply with state law with the Safe affidavit.

I don't see where federal law prohibits a person from giving an FFL a lock that the FFL could then provide to the transferee at time of delivery. Now, in order to comply with state law, it may need to be a CA-approved safety lock, so I don't know if the project childsafe locks are Rostered.

[wildhawker]

Granted, locks are usually $5 or less, but this is another law I look forward to seeing equally applied.

[SVT-40]

this is why before you arrive at the ffl for the ppt you tape a project childsafe lock on the pistolcontainer

+1 It takes the heat off the FFL, and fully complies with the law!!

[CHS]

Hrmmm...

So:

1.) Bring in a lock to give to the FFL to keep with the gun you're purchasing for 10 days.
2.) After 10 days, deliver the firearm with the lock, satisfying federal requirements. This lock does not have to be a CA DoJ approved lock.
3.) Have the customer fill out the safe affidavit to satisfy CA DoJ requirements.


Am I missing anything? Do we need some sort of proof for #2?

[ke6guj]

Hrmmm...

So:

1.) Bring in a lock to give to the FFL to keep with the gun you're purchasing for 10 days.
2.) After 10 days, deliver the firearm with the lock, satisfying federal requirements. This lock does not have to be a CA DoJ approved lock.
3.) Have the customer fill out the safe affidavit to satisfy CA DoJ requirements.


Am I missing anything? Do we need some sort of proof for #2?

I think it may need to be a Rostered lock.

12088.15. (a) No person shall keep for commercial sale, offer, or expose for commercial sale, or commercially sell any firearms safety device that is not listed on the roster maintained pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088, or that does not comply with the standards for firearms safety devices adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2.
(b) No person may distribute as part of an organized firearm safety program, with or without consideration, any firearm safety device that is not listed on the roster maintained pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088 or does not comply with the standards for firearms safety devices adopted pursuant to Section 12088.2.

Even though the FFL isn't actually "selling" the lock, to be safe, it may need to be rostered.

It looks like those project childsafe locks must be Rostered, otherwise they are violating 12088.15(b) by distibuting an non-rostered lock.

I like the C&R FFL option even better. Just fill out the safe affidavit and give the dealer a copy of your C&R FFL and you should be complying with both CA and federal law without having to deal with a safey lock.

[bohoki]

Hrmmm...

So:

1.) Bring in a lock to give to the FFL to keep with the gun you're purchasing for 10 days.

Am I missing anything? Do we need some sort of proof for #2?

nooooooo never give the ffl any reasonto believe that the lock is not coming from the seller

[CHS]

nooooooo never give the ffl any reasonto believe that the lock is not coming from the seller

That's fine too.

So step 1 is the seller gives the lock to the FFL, in order to deliver to the buyer. This lock should be a CA DoJ approved lock to satisfy CA law and Federal law at the same time.

The gunsafe affidavit satisfies CA law for the "receipt dated within 30 days" requirement.

[DeLaSeoulRZN]

I've also just signed the affadavit that says you have an approved safe or locked container and not had to deal with the separate lock issue.

Hrmmm...

So:

1.) Bring in a lock to give to the FFL to keep with the gun you're purchasing for 10 days.
2.) After 10 days, deliver the firearm with the lock, satisfying federal requirements. This lock does not have to be a CA DoJ approved lock.
3.) Have the customer fill out the safe affidavit to satisfy CA DoJ requirements.


Am I missing anything? Do we need some sort of proof for #2?

[CHS]

I've also just signed the affadavit that says you have an approved safe or locked container and not had to deal with the separate lock issue.

That will not satisfy federal requirements for a lock for handgun transfers.

[ke6guj]

I've also just signed the affadavit that says you have an approved safe or locked container and not had to deal with the separate lock issue.

for a long gun or a handgun transfer? In the last year or so?