Question re: SB 61

[eaglemike]

A local FFL tells me that the DOJ kicked back attempts to DROS a semi-automatic handgun and semi-automatic shotgun in a single 30 day period.


I looked at the text, and to me it says "a semi-automatic handgun and semi-automatic rifle" - but according to the FFL, the DOJ is says "semi-automatic handgun and semi-automatic anything" - so what's the truth?


Anyone know about this DOJ position?
TIA!


Follow up:
My local FFL just called the DOJ hotline, and they are denying semi-auto shotguns, not just centerfire semi-auto rifles under SB61. They've had DROS kicked back before, that's why I asked.
Is there someone to call to get their attention, and get it fixed?
TIA

[taperxz]

What’s the truth? The truth isn’t what your FFL said.

One handgun or one long gun that’s semi auto centerfire. You could buy 5 shotguns if your wallet desires or more

[unclerandy]

Apparently not if the OP is telling the truth...

[eaglemike]

Don't know if you actually read what I posted. He and I spoke about this after he told me they'd had a DROS kicked back, because 2-in-30, the second being a semi-auto shotgun.
I asked if he was sure about that, and he called the DOJ. He then texted me back confirming that is their position.

It's possible that he made a mistake, but he's NOT a spreader of FUD. I trust him more than I trust the DOJ. I don't know if they have everyone fully trained, or if they really decided to do whatever they want.

I'd really appreciate it if another FFL person would call the DOJ and confirm or deny.
I'll try to get another guy I know to call while I listen.

[Quiet]

The 1 in 30 day wait applies to: [PC 27535(a)]
1. All handgun types.
2. Semi-auto centerfire rifles.

Legally...

It does not matter if the handgun is a semi-auto pistol or a manually operated pistol or single-shot pistol or a pistol receiver, it applies to all handgun types.

It only applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles.
It does not apply to rimfire rifles of any type or manually operate centerfire rifles or single-shot centerfire rifles or shotguns of any type.

Note that a shotgun with rifled barrel could be considered a "rifle" under CA laws.
This means a semi-auto shotgun with a rifled barrel could be considered a semi-auto centerfire "rifle" and the 1 in 30 day wait would apply.




Penal Code 27535
(a) A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle within any 30-day period. This subdivision does not authorize a person to make an application to purchase both a handgun and semiautomatic centerfire rifle within the same 30-day period.

Penal Code 17090
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16650, 16660, 16870, and 17170, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Article 2 (commencing with Section 30300) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Penal Code 17190
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16870, and 17180, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, Section 30215, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

[eaglemike]

The 1 in 30 day wait applies to: [PC 27535(a)]
1. All handgun types.
2. Semi-auto centerfire rifles.

Legally...

It does not matter if the handgun is a semi-auto pistol or a manually operated pistol or single-shot pistol or a pistol receiver, it applies to all handgun types.

It only applies to semi-auto centerfire rifles.
It does not apply to rimfire rifles of any type or manually operate centerfire rifles or single-shot centerfire rifles or shotguns of any type.




Penal Code 27535
(a) A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle within any 30-day period. This subdivision does not authorize a person to make an application to purchase both a handgun and semiautomatic centerfire rifle within the same 30-day period.

Yes, I know what the law says. Does the DOJ know what the law says, and is that exactly what they enforce?

[Quiet]

Yes, I know what the law says. Does the DOJ know what the law says, and is that exactly what they enforce?

CA DOJ is suppose to know what the law says.

But, CA DOJ has been known to enact underground regulations to go beyond what is legally allowed.
^The majority of the time, this requires legal action (civil lawsuit) to make them stop what they are doing.

[eaglemike]

CA DOJ is suppose to know what the law says.

But, CA DOJ has been known to enact underground regulations to go beyond what is legally allowed.
^The majority of the time, this requires legal action (civil lawsuit) to make them stop what they are doing.

Since they've been telling at least 2 ffl's the wrong thing, and kicked back 2 DROS for a local FFL, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are again making stuff up.
I will send an email to Michel law firm. I don't see an easy way to let the CRPA know what going on through their site. I'm surprised this hasn't had more notice. Perhaps it's a recent position.

[taperxz]

Since they've been telling at least 2 ffl's the wrong thing, and kicked back 2 DROS for a local FFL, I'm going to go out on a limb and say they are again making stuff up.
I will send an email to Michel law firm. I don't see an easy way to let the CRPA know what going on through their site. I'm surprised this hasn't had more notice. Perhaps it's a recent position.

I have DROSED many semi auto shotguns along with a handgun and not had any kicked back.

[eaglemike]

I have DROSED many semi auto shotguns along with a handgun and not had any kicked back.

DOJ told the local guy it's a recent change. Maybe buy more stuff, be sure handgun and semi shotgun.

[Librarian]

DOJ told the local guy it's a recent change. Maybe buy more stuff, be sure handgun and semi shotgun.

Simply put, that DOJ person lied to the FFL.

The Legislature writes the laws; DOJ is empowered to enforce the laws as written (or, modified by a court ruling).

See above, 'underground regulation' and http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...und+regulation where DOJ was slapped down for similar behavior.

[eaglemike]

Simply put, that DOJ person lied to the FFL.

The Legislature writes the laws; DOJ is empowered to enforce the laws as written (or, modified by a court ruling).

See above, 'underground regulation' and http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...und+regulation where DOJ was slapped down for similar behavior.

Yes, I was around for all that. It just sucks that we have to deal with this stuff. During the hosting and software changes, my initial membership date got pushed back IIRC. So I've seen a lot of the shenanigans they've pulled.
For all the new people, this stuff is a good reason to support the CRPA, NRA, etc. We'll have to get the machine in gear to fix the situation.

[ronlglock]

I have DROSd plenty of semi shotguns and a handgun with no problem over the last month.

[eaglemike]

I have DROSd plenty of semi shotguns and a handgun with no problem over the last month.

Gotta find out what's going on. We have a couple of people that it didn't work for, so why?

[SkyHawk]

Gotta find out what's going on. We have a couple of people that it didn't work for, so why?

Is it possible they had purchased or even applied to purchase semi auto centerfire rifles or any handgun in the preceding 30 days? It seems to happen fairly frequently even before semi center fire rifles were added... some people just can't keep track.

It seems the most plausible explanation to me.