Questions re FFL Refusing to Release Firearm

[GunEnthusiast1]

EDIT: Issue is Resolved. FFL is returning the firearm to the original online gun store. Thank you.

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An AZ FFL refused to release a firearm.

What are my options (aside from suing which I hope to avoid)? Can FFLs hold onto firearms indefinitely?

[I'm asking here rather than an AZ forum because hopefully you guys are familiar with California's IIT and don't also accuse me of a straw purchase or allege that intrafamilial off-roster transfers are illegal.]

[ugimports]

Nothing you can do. Civil matter really. No paperwork was done so technically not your moms yet. How come the first FFL doesn't just refund your money since they refuse to do the paperwork? Ask them also to read 21a and why do they think your mom cannot gift the firearm to you while answering that truthfully.

Also since I do not know how the purchase process went there may be other factors why he suspected straw purchase.

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[RickD427]

Diagnostic question - Who supplied the purchase funds to the Arizona FFL?

[GunEnthusiast1]

Diagnostic question - Who supplied the purchase funds to the Arizona FFL?

Funds were supplied by my mom.

[GunEnthusiast1]

Nothing you can do. Civil matter really.

There's no ATF/FFL rule that handguns need to be transferred within a certain timeframe?

[ugimports]

There's no ATF/FFL rule that handguns need to be transferred within a certain timeframe?

What do you mean? As far as he is concerned the firearm is his. You can try to do a return from the online place you purchased and have them ship it to your new ffl of choice. I assume the bad ffl might return it to the place that shipped it to him. But nothing forces him to.

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[sfe187]

Maybe the 1st FFL doesn't want to deal with CA, doesn't want to deal with gift and/or doesn't want to deal with IIT. Did you research ahead and ask first? Not all FFL operates exactly the same way and not all FFL understand every kind of transfer.

[edgerly779]

If no money was paid then order another keep your mouth shut your mom takes possession in her name and ships to ca ffl. Does not have to come from ffl and must be gift using her money.

[ugimports]

I feel so taken advanced of...



Anyway, based on the talks between the AZ FFLs (I wasn't there, only got the summary from the friendly one), the first FFL is adamant that it's a straw purchase and that he needs to keep proof (the handgun) of my alleged conspiracy with mom to commit the pseudo-felony of the interstate intrafamilial transfer (the horror!).



Will the federal ATF help out in these situations? Even to just explain to FFLs that IIT is perfectly legal and a common way for CA residents to get off-roster handguns?

ATF knows nothing about CA Intrafamilal laws or what off roster means.

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[GunEnthusiast1]

ATF knows nothing about CA Intrafamilal laws or what off roster means.

OK, so my only options are to ask him to return to sender or sue?

[edgerly779]

Small claims is 5k or 10k . Clueless I guess. They suspected a straw purchase so they can refuse sale to your mom. Your name cannot be on it till transfered and drosed in ca.

[GunEnthusiast1]

Small claims is 5k or 10k . Clueless I guess. They suspected a straw purchase so they can refuse sale to your mom. Your name cannot be on it till transfered and drosed in ca.

Sorry, I was quoting the filing fees that small claims is around $200. I know that the net recovery is for small claims courts is generally 10k or less.

I did not plan on having my name on it til it was DROS'd here.

[edgerly779]

Like I said she should have purchased and taken possession and shipped to ca ffl. Now they do not trust you or your mom.

[GunEnthusiast1]

Like I said she should have purchased and taken possession and shipped to ca ffl. Now they do not trust you or your mom.

What do you think I can do to get the FFL to return to sender or hand off to another AZ FFL? (keep in mind he's apparently reported the transaction to the ATF believing it's some straw purchase).

[sfe187]

1. There are some AZ FFL will not do lawful transactions once CA is in the picture. One dealer won't or want to honor C&R transactions once he realize 03 holder's address is from CA. So always call ahead to see if they do the type of transaction you are requesting.
2. He interpreted your actions as a straw, so he reported, that's his prerogative. His business practice. He is not the judge however. Any option you go from there is going to cost you as you laid out the financial figures already. Why not see if you guys can work something out, if he is not willing, not much you can do. He holds all the cards currently.