FFL or No?

[Nardo1895]

The weapon described in the post listed below is part of an estate I'm selling for the widow.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1708280

When I received it I thought it was some kind of European Bulldog revolver so I entered it that way in my A&D book.

I'm now convinced its not a firearm but rather an early version of pepper spray or a flash bang.

I have it for sale on GB and I've been asked if it needs to go to a FFL since its not a firearm. That makes sense to me, but I'm not sure what to do about my A&D entry. Further, a 45LC will fit in the cylinder (a 410 will not). I think shooting any conventional ammunition would blow the thing up, but who knows.

Can I sell this to someone without going through a FFL? Do I just cross out my A&D entry and note "Not a Firearm"?

[EBR Works]

We have handled estate items like that. Our A&D entry showed disposition to my name/address and notation “Non-firearm. Removed.” We had a compliance inspection six months later and the ATF was fine with that.

[Milsurp1]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

[Nardo1895]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

I don't think it fits the pre 1899 criteria for an antique, but it might still meet the criteria in that it does not use cartridge ammunition.

People can do all kinds of dumb-A stuff, but it seems to me that if it wasn't designed to use modern ammunition, and has not been modified to do so, the fact a 45LC fits doesn't make it a firearm.

[SkyHawk]

If can readily be converted to expel a projectile, it is a federal firearm. Even if it was not designed to do so. Even some starter guns are firearms.



Simpsons knows what they are doing, and they do sell 45LC antiques without FFL.

https://simpsonltd.com/colt-saa-c45967/

But if they are calling these gas guns C&R, my guess is they know something.

Rock Island also calls them C&R

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/77/3129/german-scheintod-folding-trigger-tear-gas-revolver

Pull a bullet and powder from a 45LC case, and see if you can set off the primer with the gun. If you can and the barrel is not plugged and would pass a 45 bullet (or shot), then it is a firearm because it was simple to convert.

My guess is a .410 may also come close to if not actually fit.

[Nardo1895]

Pull a bullet and powder from a 45LC case, and see if you can set off the primer with the gun. If you can and the barrel is not plugged and would pass a 45 bullet (or shot), then it is a firearm because it was simple to convert.

My guess is a .410 may also come close to if not actually fit.

This is really a rhetorical question at this point; If a 45 LC would fire in it, but it blew it up on the first shot, not being designed for those kinds of pressures, was it really convertible? I don't propose to find out but I may try the primed case suggestion.

Back to real world, it seems like the best thing is to require it go through a FFL (01 or 03). That appears to be what Simpsons and RIA have done.

Thanks for the information and advise.

[Tyke8319]

Maybe you know, but one of the British caliber was a .455 Webley. It's an old round with pressures that max out at 13,000 psi. The .45 LC can far exceed that. My guess is that's a .455 cal revolver (perhaps a shot cartridge, etc.) and the cylinder would most likely not hold together under a .45 LC. Play it safe...