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Texas to California Intrafamilial

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  • Last2Die
    Member
    • Jun 2016
    • 148

    Texas to California Intrafamilial

    So I was called about this last night. Being a new FFL I for sure dont pretend to have all the answers but the short and skinny of this is:

    Father, Lives in Texas bought his son, who lives in California A sig 365, an off roster hand gun.

    The handgun is currently at a different FFL near me but he refuses to look into the situation and process if possible. He just wants to send the firearm back to Texas.

    I did pose this question to my local DOJ contacts and im waiting on a response. I figured I would post here since there is a wealth of information and expertise here as well !! This is what I sent:


    I would like some information in regards to the Interstate Intrafamilial Transfer as my father lives in Texas and purchased me a handgun as a gift. He would like to send me the gift and wants to know what he must do to send it legally. The gun is a California off-roster handgun and according to Penal Code 32110 (formally PC13132) these types of transfers are exempt and NOT subject to roster of handguns.
    Because it is interstate, Texas to California, the pistol must go to a CA FFL - the receiver may not take possession until the transfer has occurred at the CA FFL
    Handguns transferred via intrafamilial transfer are NOT subject to the Roster.
    Handguns should be accompanied by a letter of gift, specifying giver's name and relationship (e.g. John Smith, Grandfather), the handgun (e.g. Glock 17 9mm pistol, serial 12345), and the receiver's name (e.g. Little Jimmy Smith).
    Since the transfer must use a CA FFL, the ordinary rules for an FFL transfer must be followed, including background check and 10-day wait. The receiver should be at least 18 years old for a long gun, 21 for a handgun; if a handgun, the receiver may have an unexpired Handgun Safety Certificate; otherwise, from 2015 forward, a Firearms Safety Certificate is required for any firearm.
    The FFL should use the DROS "Curio/Relic/Exempt" process, and add a comment "27870PC intrafamily transfer".

    again im a new FFL and for sure dont know the ins and out of all th laws, like I told the gentleman over the phone this will be a learning experience for me as well. Please advise ! Thank you

    Tony
  • #2
    Nardo1895
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2016
    • 965

    Assuming the other FFL will transfer the firearm to you...

    You can do it as an interfamilial transfer. You should get a letter signed by the dad that documents the relationship and that he is gifting the firearm to his son. Some FFLs want this notarized, others don't. Its your call if you are doing the transfer. Note that out of state interfamilial works up and down but not side to side. Parent to child is fine, sibling to sibling isn't.

    I have a form I use for the letter. If you PM me your email I'll send you a copy.

    Its been a while since I've done one but I think you run it as an exempt handgun in DROS. Others on this forum will know for sure.

    Comment

    • #3
      Last2Die
      Member
      • Jun 2016
      • 148

      Comment

      • #4
        Last2Die
        Member
        • Jun 2016
        • 148

        Thank you Nado1895 for the form I did receive it !!

        I'm going to post what the CA DOJ told me to do as far as this situation. I figure the most correct information is the best course of action.

        1. As I have been told its linear transaction. Father to son or daughter. Mother to son or daughter. Grandfather to son or daughter. I think you get the point its direct relationship.

        2. In DROS is would be classified as "Exempt Handgun Sale"

        3. Put in FSC number then look under expemptions and select code X02 "Operation of Law Rep"

        4. in the comment box I was told the correct law code is PC 27875

        5. Check box for 30 day exemption

        Required letter from father to son stating it was a gift, with the model and serial number in the letter. It can be notarized FFL's choice.

        A copy of the fathers DL at least the front, again FFL choice can be front and back.

        If shipped with a magazine higher then 10 round keep and do not let it walk out with the firearm.

        Everything else is DROS as usual.....

        Which brings me to the end of my journey. I went to the FFL's house to take possession of the firearm. He refused I explained we need the CFLC letter and entries in our A&D book. He refused. Told me he won't release it because it shipped without a CFLC letter from the dealer in Texas, he has has this firearm over 2 weeks with no entries in the A&D book, I asked. Not wanting to get in the middle of this DRAMA I went to the door a second time and handed him OUR DOJ field rep information which is where I got all the info on doing the transfer. At that point he accused the client of a straw purchase..... and again refused...

        30 minutes later I get a call from the client that the FFL dealer that has his firearm is now more than happy to do the transfer.

        Now, I don't like talking ill of people, but I will say this; that fat POS couldn't get off his *** himself to find the correct information, I had to do all the leg work but in the end thats ok... the client will get what is his legally.

        I went into this as a learning experience and I learned about this FFL transfer for sure but more importantly the correct way to do this type of transfer, Yes im new and im smart enough to ask questions that I do not know and not act like an *** like this other FFL has. As you can tell I did not give out his info, nor will I. I will hold myself to a higher standard, a standard fitting of a United States Marine. Semper Fi all !!!

        Tony

        ps I hope this info helps someone....... rant over lol
        Last edited by Last2Die; 01-29-2021, 8:14 AM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Quiet
          retired Goon
          • Mar 2007
          • 30242

          Originally posted by Last2Die
          3. Put in FSC number then look under expeditions and select code X02 "Operation of Law Rep"
          This is incorrect.

          An intra-familial firearm transaction is not an operation of law transfer.

          Which means it does not qualify for the FSC exemption code of X02: Operation of Law Representative.

          PC 31700(b) defines who would meets the FSC exemption for an Operation of Law representative.


          Penal Code 31700
          (b) The following persons who take title or possession of a firearm by operation of law in a representative capacity, until or unless they transfer title ownership of the firearm to themselves in a personal capacity, are exempted from the firearm safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a) of Section 31615:
          (1) The executor, personal representative, or administrator of an estate.
          (2) A secured creditor or an agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, a default under a security agreement under the Commercial Code.
          (3) A levying officer, as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or 680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
          (4) A receiver performing the functions of a receiver.
          (5) A trustee in bankruptcy performing the duties of a trustee.
          (6) An assignee for the benefit of creditors performing the functions of an assignee.
          (7) The trustee of a trust that includes a firearm and that was part of a will that created the trust.
          (8) A person acting pursuant to the person’s power of attorney in accordance with Division 4.5 (commencing with Section 4000) of the Probate Code.
          (9) A limited or general conservator appointed by a court pursuant to the Probate Code or Welfare and Institutions Code.
          (10) A guardian ad litem appointed by a court pursuant to Section 372 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
          (11) The trustee of a trust that includes a firearm that is under court supervision.
          (12) A special administrator appointed by a court pursuant to Section 8540 of the Probate Code.
          (13) A guardian appointed by a court pursuant to Section 1500 of the Probate Code.
          sigpic

          "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

          Comment

          • #6
            edgerly779
            CGN/CGSSA Contributor
            CGN Contributor
            • Aug 2009
            • 19871

            The other ffl to lazy to do transfer or just does not want to do it. The parties should have asked ffl if they would process it. Failure on their part.

            Comment

            • #7
              Last2Die
              Member
              • Jun 2016
              • 148

              @Quiet. This information came right from the DOJ. That is exactly how she told me to do it. She told me people have been doing it wrong for some time now and are trying to get the bad information off the net.

              @edgerly779 YES he was to lazy to do the leg work to find out how to do it. The guy is a *******..... so was his wife, yelling at me telling me to get the **** off their property.... Karma will get him !!

              Comment

              • #8
                taperxz
                I need a LIFE!!
                • Feb 2010
                • 19395

                Originally posted by Last2Die
                @Quiet. This information came right from the DOJ. That is exactly how she told me to do it. She told me people have been doing it wrong for some time now and are trying to get the bad information off the net.

                @edgerly779 YES he was to lazy to do the leg work to find out how to do it. The guy is a *******..... so was his wife, yelling at me telling me to get the **** off their property.... Karma will get him !!
                Welcome to DOJ giving you the wrong information. Even when a CA to CA family transfer father to son you need to put in the FSC card number. There is no exemption available for the FSC card like they are telling you.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Last2Die
                  Member
                  • Jun 2016
                  • 148

                  Did I say the client would be exempt for the FSC card ..? Shoot if I did that’s wrong. You put in their FSC number then use the X02. Again that’s what she told me. Sorry if I wasn’t clear, didn’t mean to imply the client does not need a FSC.

                  Tony

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    edgerly779
                    CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                    CGN Contributor
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 19871

                    Here in socal we have a couple ffl's that are good with the intrafamilial interstate Shootsocal and ace pawn are stand up shops. Reasonable prices.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Quiet
                      retired Goon
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 30242

                      Originally posted by Last2Die
                      @Quiet. This information came right from the DOJ. That is exactly how she told me to do it. She told me people have been doing it wrong for some time now and are trying to get the bad information off the net.
                      Appears that DOJ rep can not read and understand CA Penal Codes, which would be on-par with CA DOJ BOF personnel that are not in the Enforcement section.

                      Penal Code 31700(b) defines everyone who qualifies for the Operation of Law representative exemption to the FSC.
                      ^Immediate family members are not listed.
                      sigpic

                      "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Last2Die
                        Member
                        • Jun 2016
                        • 148

                        @quiet. I will ask her for clarification, you bring up valid points and if the doj is wrong then this needs to be corrected.

                        Sent her an email, will update with reply. Thanks Quiet !!
                        Last edited by Last2Die; 01-30-2021, 9:21 AM.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          taperxz
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 19395

                          Originally posted by Last2Die
                          Did I say the client would be exempt for the FSC card ..? Shoot if I did that’s wrong. You put in their FSC number then use the X02. Again that’s what she told me. Sorry if I wasn’t clear, didn’t mean to imply the client does not need a FSC.

                          Tony
                          Clearly you don't understand what i said and thats why you are asking. You are not grasping the concept of what i said.

                          The FSC/HSC exemption codes are there for one reason and one reason only! An exemption to the required FSC card. Thats it! There is no other purpose since it was designed per the penal code requiring an FSC card to purchase/ transfer a firearm in this state.
                          Last edited by taperxz; 01-30-2021, 1:38 PM.

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