DES lock-out / "expired" COE issue (multiple dealers impacted)

[RCxRC]

I conducted a PPT at Greta's Guns in Simi Valley Tuesday morning (2 days ago).

Received a phone call from Greta's staff just now that DOJ shut down their DES (DROS Entry System) access over a claimed "expired COE" issue. Advised by Greta's staff simply as a "heads up", in case it results in a release delay (in another 8 days, so notifying early of a possible issue that may prevent release on-time), even though the initial transfer transaction has already been approved (during the face-to-face PPT).

The Greta's staff caller also indicated this is apparently affecting at least another half-dozen dealers they are aware of, and they are still struggling to remedy with DOJ. They are trying to determine an alternate / back-up course of action to possibly transfer items on wait to another dealer, and reportedly even have local state representative Mike Garcia (25th District) involved in an attempt to rectify.

Just a heads up....I noticed a couple other DES lock-out situations in the titles of recent FFL sub-forum threads, also due to "expired" COE's due to a variety of separate license
/ permit expiration issues (or separate router crashing, DES access / updating issues).

NOTE: subsequently found this possibly related thread:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1681590

Recent Calguns Forum post to the FFL holders sub-forum, regarding DES access being cut-off (as well as ammo & hi-cap mag permits) due to an expired CLEO (Chief local LEO) authorization letter (letter expired 12-31, even though COE didn't expire until end of Jan)

and https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1655525

and https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1584870

and finally... http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1583473

[nd4spdbh]

I have been caught up in this as well. 2 long gun PPT's at Grettas scheduled to be released on sat. Now I have to sit and wait.

This is such BS.

A question for the FFL's. Does an FFL's COE expire at the same time as everyone elses every year IE Jan 1st every year for everyone, or it a rolling yearly date from when you got it originally IE your COE was initially given on March 5th, so its up for expiration March 5th every year while others are different dates?

Reason I ask is, "what is your COE's expiration date?" Is going to be a question I ask any FFL on future purchases so my 10 day hold is not going through an expiration date... because alas i am going through this exact situation and its utter bull****.

[Nardo1895]

A question for the FFL's. Does an FFL's COE expire at the same time as everyone elses every year IE Jan 1st every year for everyone, or it a rolling yearly date from when you got it originally IE your COE was initially given on March 5th, so its up for expiration March 5th every year while others are different dates?

COEs expire a year after you first obtain one. For example, mine expires in August. There is no set month.

[Nardo1895]

... and its not just the COE. My CA Dealer's license expires every January (this is the same for everyone). My FFL expires in May, and my local business license expires in June.

Missing any one of these can hang you up, so you better be prepared to ask about more than just the COE.

[hunterb]

If Greta’s let their COE expire that’s on them.

I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s the reality of our Commie State.

[nd4spdbh]

They [grettas] are stating they renewed early (you can renew with the state a max of 45 days ahead of expiration) and that the DOJ is dragging their feet on the excuse of "we are back logged due to covid"

[ronlglock]

DES lock-out / "expired" COE issue (multiple dealers impacted)


Yes and no. CA is making it extra hard to renew COEs by adding undocumented requirements and delaying even when everything is submitted.

The system prevents renewal any sooner than 45 days before expiration and if you attempt to mail anything in it will be returned to you.

[OCArmory]

That is why when I help people start an FFL I recommend having two people as responsible parties whose COEs are renewed far enough apart. It has saved a lot of headache. Usually you would add a trusted manager or in the case of a small shop a sibling or spouse. Also helps in the unfortunate event of the primary licensee passing away unexpectedly. If the FFL has another responsible party they can continue the business. The failure of the DOJ to send renewals is just crap. I am almost certain they did that on purpose.

[Nardo1895]

Its not just the COE's. DOJ normally sends out renewal letters for the State Dealers licenses in November. The dealer's license expires Jan 31, and if you have a ammo vendor or high cap magazine permit those expire Jan 1. I never got my renewal notice. I have read on this forum that others also did not get their notice. I finally sent my renewal in on my own in late December. I'm still waiting on my renewals.

I suspect it has more to do with workload and staffing than an effort to make life miserable for dealers and buyers.

[SkyHawk]

They [grettas] are stating they renewed early (you can renew with the state a max of 45 days ahead of expiration) and that the DOJ is dragging their feet on the excuse of "we are back logged due to covid"

In the (very, very recent) past you could renew COE 60 days in advance. I don't think that has changed. So if they thought 45 days, well that's where they went wrong...

At least they are calling people well in advance, and also being truthful about what is happening.

[nd4spdbh]

In the (very, very recent) past you could renew COE 60 days in advance. I don't think that has changed. So if they thought 45 days, well that's where they went wrong...

At least they are calling people well in advance, and also being truthful about what is happening.

2 days in "advance" here. Though I do appreciate the call. Now i hope that it doesnt take too long so as to have to re-dros everything and wait even longer.

Needless to say ill be asking an FFL about their expiration dates from here on out before doing any business with them.

[BONECUTTER]

In the (very, very recent) past you could renew COE 60 days in advance. I don't think that has changed. So if they thought 45 days, well that's where they went wrong...

At least they are calling people well in advance, and also being truthful about what is happening.

Its 45 days.

Renewals used to take a week.
When it was mostly dealers only.
Now everyone who sell/stocks/works around guns/ammo needs to have one. The state is slammed and can't keep up. I have seen 3-5 weeks on average for approvals.

[SkyHawk]

Its 45 days.

Renewals used to take a week.
When it was mostly dealers only.
Now everyone who sell/stocks/works around guns/ammo needs to have one. The state is slammed and can't keep up. I have seen 3-5 weeks on average for approvals.

For the past 4 years, I have renewed my COE ~60 days in advance, I just checked my COE transaction history on CFARS. My COE always expires 11/15, I renew around 9/16 every year. Could the renewal window be different for 03 vs 01 FFLs?

[chevy_dog]

Renewal window available on the website starts at 60 days prior to expiration. I just renewed at 59 days on 1/10/2021 and it expires on 3/10/2021.

[RCxRC]

Outstanding Thread - Please Sticky!

This has been an outstanding thread. The FFL contributions reflecting their own experiences have been stellar and spot-on. 5-star thread rating upvote due to the excellent responses received. Along with the info gleaned from several earlier threads I linked to in my first post, this has really been very eye-opening and insightful into the process(es) involved in acquiring and maintaining the dizzying myriad of licenses and permits needed to keep an FFL business afloat. This, especially considering the current "pandemic" induced state of affairs and delays.

Highly recommend making a sticky, but I am not an FFL01 (03 / COE only) and shouldn't have final say, on whether it should be.... mostly new for me, but perhaps those already subscribed to and regulary checking and posting to this sub-forum, along with this sub-forum's Mod's, already know all of this as they're already "living it" and perhaps don't see the need to make it a sticky...

Or simply link to (within) whatever other "sticky" thread already covers this info....