CFLC form approval by fax - does it still work?

[SkyHawk]

I had a FFL out of state send the CFLC fax form to DOJ a couple days ago and they have not gotten anything back yet. Does the fax form still work and how long does it take?

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/cflcfaxrequest.pdf

They forgot the pwd of their CFLC account and their email address has changed and they do not have access to their old email to do the pwd reset, hence the fax.

Thanks!

[ronlglock]

I wonder if they are piling up on the floor at the office?

[dvs762]

why dont they just call the CFLC guys and reset their password that way

[SkyHawk]

why dont they just call the CFLC guys and reset their password that way

That is plan B if the fax goes unanswered, but I am not sure it will be as easy to 'call and reset the password' as you and I think it should be. This is the DOJ we're talking about...

[Nardo1895]

Short answer - I don't think they monitor the fax line.

Long Answer - I received a firearm from an out of state FFL for a local transfer. He included a copy of his faxed request letter, but not the approval letter or number. I called him to see if he had received a response. He had not.

I called my DOJ rep who said they no longer monitor that FAX line. I suggested maybe they should revise the form since it still lists the fax number.

I called the dealer back to see if he would enroll in CFLC. No luck, he wasn't willing and didn't really want to do business with CA. He claimed other CA FFLs were satisfied with the request letter. We agreed that I would email the request letter on his behalf (he has email but wanted me to do it) and he'd let me know if/when he got a response. I also heard back from my DOJ rep who said she would submit it for me (she has been super to work with).

I got an email a few days later from CFARs asking for the full FFL number but also saying the FAX and email submittal methods were only for dealers without internet access (how do you email without internet access?).

I waited a week to see if either my email or my DOJ rep's submittal worked. The dealer still had not received a response so I told him I was going to have to ship the firearm back to him. He again suggested I just accept the request letter as sufficient. I told him with the new $1000 fine law I just could not do it. In a couple hours he emailed me the authorization number. I don't know if DOJ finally come though with the prior submittal(s), or if he felt sorry for me and enrolled. At this point I didn't care or want to push my luck with him.

So my conclusion is that the fax number doesn't work, and I doubt the email address works either.

[SkyHawk]

^^ Thank you for the info

[ugimports]

Short answer - I don't think they monitor the fax line.

Long Answer - I received a firearm from an out of state FFL for a local transfer. He included a copy of his faxed request letter, but not the approval letter or number. I called him to see if he had received a response. He had not.

I called my DOJ rep who said they no longer monitor that FAX line. I suggested maybe they should revise the form since it still lists the fax number.

I called the dealer back to see if he would enroll in CFLC. No luck, he wasn't willing and didn't really want to do business with CA. He claimed other CA FFLs were satisfied with the request letter. We agreed that I would email the request letter on his behalf (he has email but wanted me to do it) and he'd let me know if/when he got a response. I also heard back from my DOJ rep who said she would submit it for me (she has been super to work with).

I got an email a few days later from CFARs asking for the full FFL number but also saying the FAX and email submittal methods were only for dealers without internet access (how do you email without internet access?).

I waited a week to see if either my email or my DOJ rep's submittal worked. The dealer still had not received a response so I told him I was going to have to ship the firearm back to him. He again suggested I just accept the request letter as sufficient. I told him with the new $1000 fine law I just could not do it. In a couple hours he emailed me the authorization number. I don't know if DOJ finally come though with the prior submittal(s), or if he felt sorry for me and enrolled. At this point I didn't care or want to push my luck with him.

So my conclusion is that the fax number doesn't work, and I doubt the email address works either.

What PC are we breaking if the shipper doesn't apply the FSA? It seems the law that is broken is on the shipper and not the receiver? Also, there's no requirement we keep the FSA.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs#14

27555 seems to put the issue on the seller:

(a) (1) Commencing July 1, 2008, a person who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may not sell, deliver, or transfer a firearm to a person in California who is licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code unless, prior to delivery, the person intending to sell, deliver, or transfer the firearm obtains a verification number via the Internet for the intended sale, delivery, or transfer, from the Department of Justice.

I couldn't find the PC that says the receiving FFL is at any fault if the seller can't or refuses to issue the Firearm Shipment Approval number.

[Nardo1895]

You may be right. I have had issues on more then one occasion where I was having difficulty getting the approval letter/number and my DOJ rep said I could not process the transfer without it.

It would seem that DOJ has no jurisdiction over an out of state FFL so how would they enforce 27555?

One of the referenced FAQs says, in part:

"Anytime you receive a firearm from an FFL (regardless of whether the other FFL is located within or outside of California) a Firearms Shipment Approval number from the FFL shipper must be included with the firearm."

I guess the question is, "How would they enforce it, and if you are not required to keep a copy, how would they know?"

[ugimports]

You may be right. I have had issues on more then one occasion where I was having difficulty getting the approval letter/number and my DOJ rep said I could not process the transfer without it.

It would seem that DOJ has no jurisdiction over an out of state FFL so how would they enforce 27555?

One of the referenced FAQs says, in part:

"Anytime you receive a firearm from an FFL (regardless of whether the other FFL is located within or outside of California) a Firearms Shipment Approval number from the FFL shipper must be included with the firearm."

I guess the question is, "How would they enforce it, and if you are not required to keep a copy, how would they know?"

Good question. Also, we generally tell the buyer it's their responsibility to make sure their seller provides it. If we don't get it we tell them we can't transfer the firearm and they are pretty good about putting the pressure on the seller to deal with it.

[SkyHawk]

Update: the FFL emailed cflchelp and asked for their email address to be updated. DOJ responded quickly and they were then able to reset their CFLC password.