Guns, PPTs, Cases, and Locks

[QuinnBayArea]

So when a customer picks up a PPT/Purchase/Transfer, and the gun is in a single zipper soft case (or any case), does he need to have some kind of lock on either the gun, or the case?

IF YES, then does a Safe Affidavit over rule this requirement?

[Librarian]

On the case for transport.

No, the safe affidavit does not over-ride the need for a locked case for transport, but there is this oddity in Penal Code -

26815.

No firearm shall be delivered:

(a) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after notice by the department pursuant to Section 28220, within 10 days of the submission to the department of any correction to the application, or within 10 days of the submission to the department of any fee required pursuant to Section 28225, whichever is later.

(b) Unless unloaded and securely wrapped or unloaded and in a locked container.
...

What does that mean? Looks like a 'checkoff' item for the delivering FFL, but I don't see how it covers transport.

See the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e=Transporting

[QuinnBayArea]

On the case for transport.

No, the safe affidavit does not over-ride the need for a locked case for transport, but there is this oddity in Penal Code - What does that mean? Looks like a 'checkoff' item for the delivering FFL, but I don't see how it covers transport.

See the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...e=Transporting

When we Deliver the DROS, our DOJ rep said we MUST include in the comment section what lock the firearm has and that the Firearm needed to be LOCKED. Had a customer today literally yelling at me that he didn't need no stinking lock and he was an FFL (but wouldn't say anything more about that) and knew for a fact that no lock is required. I offered to GIVE HIM a lock just to satisfy DOJ and he still screamed and yelled at me. Yes, he took my free lock, secured the gun, and left.

I've never had someone challenge the lock thing, and like 90% of customers come in with their own locks......

[CalifEd]

I always bring my own locks and metal, locking case, they are common keyed/combo, current and CADOJ approved.
Some of the FFL's require that I buy one of their lock for around $6-$8, especially ones I haven't dealt with.
I kinda feel that its their business, their rules but I will grumble in the privacy of my car all the way home.

[Librarian]

When we Deliver the DROS, our DOJ rep said we MUST include in the comment section what lock the firearm has and that the Firearm needed to be LOCKED.

I don't suppose it would be politic to challenge the rep, but so far as FFL duty is concerned, nothing in CA law requires that.

Here's the law:

23635.

(a) Any firearm sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including a private transfer through a dealer, and any firearm manufactured in this state,

shall include or be accompanied by a firearm safety device

that is listed on the Department of Justice’s roster of approved firearm safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

Nothing there, or anywhere else in PC, requiring that the lock be used.

Apparently some cities do require that; I believe Livermore is one.

ETA and, any safety device that is applied to the gun does not satisfy the 'locked container' requirement for transport.

[ugimports]

When we Deliver the DROS, our DOJ rep said we MUST include in the comment section what lock the firearm has and that the Firearm needed to be LOCKED. Had a customer today literally yelling at me that he didn't need no stinking lock and he was an FFL (but wouldn't say anything more about that) and knew for a fact that no lock is required. I offered to GIVE HIM a lock just to satisfy DOJ and he still screamed and yelled at me. Yes, he took my free lock, secured the gun, and left.

I've never had someone challenge the lock thing, and like 90% of customers come in with their own locks......

You didn't mention handgun or other (or I missed it).

If he had a safe affidavit no lock is required for anything by the state.
The feds require a lock for a handgun, but it does not need to be on the CA DOJ Roster of locks.

He wasn't entirely wrong, but context matters too. We accept safe affidavits for the state requirement and any gun lock for handguns if that's what a customer has.

[sass2924]

You didn't mention handgun or other (or I missed it).

If he had a safe affidavit no lock is required for anything by the state.
The feds require a lock for a handgun, but it does not need to be on the CA DOJ Roster of locks.

He wasn't entirely wrong, but context matters too. We accept safe affidavits for the state requirement and any gun lock for handguns if that's what a customer has.

That's what we do, but the the PC that Librarian posted suggests a lock needs to be used with every firearm, with or without a safe affidavit.

[Librarian]

That's what we do, but the the PC that Librarian posted suggests a lock needs to be used with every firearm, with or without a safe affidavit.

2 distinct lock needs -
as posted, state law requires a safety device when the gun goes out the door; BUT a safe-affidavit satisfies that requirement.

Federal law requires a safety device for handguns, and the affidavit does NOT work for the Feds.

Transport is an entirely different problem; unless the buyer brings in an approved 'lock box' for the safety device, CA requires a fully-enclosing locked container (the zipped gun case with a lock, mentioned in the first post, would be fine) - the safety device does NOT satisfy transport requirements for handguns.

See the long explanation at the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...es.2C_and_Laws

[ar15barrels]

2 distinct lock needs -
as posted, state law requires a safety device when the gun goes out the door; BUT a safe-affidavit satisfies that requirement.

Federal law requires a safety device for handguns, and the affidavit does NOT work for the Feds.

Transport is an entirely different problem; unless the buyer brings in an approved 'lock box' for the safety device, CA requires a fully-enclosing locked container (the zipped gun case with a lock, mentioned in the first post, would be fine) - the safety device does NOT satisfy transport requirements for handguns.

See the long explanation at the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...es.2C_and_Laws

Interesting side question on this.
If picking up multiple handguns on one DROS, would ONE handgun safety device satisfy the federal requirement for all of the handguns or is one safety device required PER handgun?

[Quiet]

Interesting side question on this.
If picking up multiple handguns on one DROS, would ONE handgun safety device satisfy the federal requirement for all of the handguns or is one safety device required PER handgun?

Federal laws/regulations requires one safety device per handgun. [18 USC 922(z)(1)]

[ar15barrels]

Federal laws/regulations requires one safety device per handgun. [18 USC 922(z)(1)]

Would a locked case that all the handguns fit into work as a "secure gun storage or safety device" for all of them?

[edgerly779]

Use a roy rogers lunch box with a lock and you are good to go.Rivet a hasp on it and good to go with lock same as backpack, gym bagm shoe case, attache case, makeup case for calgunners who need those.

[ronlglock]

You didn't mention handgun or other (or I missed it).

If he had a safe affidavit no lock is required for anything by the state.
The feds require a lock for a handgun, but it does not need to be on the CA DOJ Roster of locks.

He wasn't entirely wrong, but context matters too. We accept safe affidavits for the state requirement and any gun lock for handguns if that's what a customer has.

I believe the case still needs to be locked no matter what. Also sounds like a handgun needs a lock present to please the feds.

Long guns need a lock or safe affidavit.