No Limit Ammo Private Party Sellers

[ugimports]

While this may contradict what most of us thought, at least the CA DOJ reps do not believe there is a limit for private party sellers.

While not official and YMMV:

When processioning private party ammo sales what paperwork do I need from a seller that is selling > 500 rounds at a time (such as a case of 9mm ammo which is typically 1000 rounds).

Also, how will I know if a seller has previously sold 500 rounds within 30 days of me processing a private party ammo transfer for them?

It does not matter how many rounds are being transferred. There is no restriction on how many transaction can be done in a 30 day period.

[Librarian]

The 500-round limit is the cutoff for using an Ammunition Vendor as the mediator.

30342.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a valid ammunition vendor license shall be required for any person, firm, corporation, or other business enterprise to sell more than 500 rounds of ammunition in any 30-day period.

If you, an ammunition vendor, are processing the transfer, then no limit.

[ugimports]

The 500-round limit is the cutoff for using an Ammunition Vendor as the mediator.
If you, an ammunition vendor, are processing the transfer, then no limit.

Ah I misunderstood what that limit was. I think most people have thought that even if you sell 50 rounds you have to do it at a dealer.

ETA: I read the PC as:
(a) Commencing January 1, 2018, a valid ammunition vendor license shall be required for any person, to sell more than 500 rounds of ammunition in any 30-day period.

[Dr Pete]

So Walmart and all won't be able to sell me Winchester 550 brick of 22's any longer?

[Fizz]

If looks like your rep confused conducting sales of ammo inventory by FFL/Ammo Vendor with person to person ammo transfers.

You're supposed to use an Ammo Vendor / FFL to transfer ammo person to person.

[ugimports]

If looks like your rep confused conducting sales of ammo inventory by FFL/Ammo Vendor with person to person ammo transfers.

You're supposed to use an Ammo Vendor / FFL to transfer ammo person to person.

Based on Librarian's feedback that is only if more than 500 rounds are being transferred. If you stay under the 500 round limit you can still sell directly person to person?

I hope the rep wasn't confused. I was using the terminology from the DES screen for processing a private person to person ammo transfer through us as an FFL.

[ugimports]

So Walmart and all won't be able to sell me Winchester 550 brick of 22's any longer?

Sure they can. They have an Ammo Vendor License presumably.

[Dr Pete]

Sorry I read this wrong, confusing isn't it

[edgerly779]

So we can still ppt 500 or less rounds with no vendor or ffl involved?

[ugimports]

So we can still ppt 500 or less rounds with no vendor or ffl involved?

I didn't know that, but it appears so. 500 rounds or less every 30 days it seems. I had originally read that as 500 rounds or less a month doesn't require a vendors license, but apparently read that wrong.

[Fizz]

Based on Librarian's feedback that is only if more than 500 rounds are being transferred. If you stay under the 500 round limit you can still sell directly person to person?

I hope the rep wasn't confused. I was using the terminology from the DES screen for processing a private person to person ammo transfer through us as an FFL.

I don't believe so.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312

ALL transfers of ammo must involve an ammo Vendor/FFL in some capacity, even if you're direct shipped ammo under an FFL03.

What Librarian was saying is that private party transfers are subject to 500 rounds limit via Ammo Vendor/FFL per month. Attempting to sell more than that, as a private person is prohibited without a license.

The FFL is still required for transfers under 500, but over 500 requires you to be an FFL/Ammo Vendor.

[ugimports]

I don't believe so.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312

ALL transfers of ammo must involve an ammo Vendor/FFL in some capacity, even if you're direct shipped ammo under an FFL03.

What Librarian was saying is that private party transfers are subject to 500 rounds limit via Ammo Vendor/FFL per month. Attempting to sell more than that, as a private person is prohibited without a license.

The FFL is still required for transfers under 500, but over 500 requires you to be an FFL/Ammo Vendor.

That's not what my DOJ rep said and what you're saying is what I thought before reading Librarian's reply. I gave the example to DOJ rep of a customer coming in to do a private party sale of a case of 9mm ammo (1000 rounds) and asked what additional paperwork I needed. I expected her to say something to the effect of an ammo vendor license, but she did not..

It does not matter how many rounds are being transferred. There is no restriction on how many transaction can be done in a 30 day period.

[Fizz]

That's not what my DOJ rep said and what you're saying is what I thought before reading Librarian's reply. I gave the example to DOJ rep of a customer coming in to do a private party sale of a case of 9mm ammo (1000 rounds) and asked what additional paperwork I needed. I expected her to say something to the effect of an ammo vendor license, but she did not..

The statute I linked is clear IMO.

I don't think your rep understands the law, or the rep misconstrued your use of "private party" to mean selling from your inventory to a private person (non FFL/ammo Vendor), rather than using the you as the middleman between two run of the mill civilians.

Regardless, your DOJ rep isn't your attorney so I'd get a second opinion.

[ugimports]

The statute I linked is clear IMO.

I don't think your rep understands the law, or the rep misconstrued your use of "private party" to mean selling from your inventory to a private person (non FFL/ammo Vendor), rather than using the you as the middleman between two run of the mill civilians.

Regardless, your DOJ rep isn't your attorney so I'd get a second opinion.

Hence why I said YMMV... I don't know what they can misconstrue. I'm an ammo vendor I don't know why I'd be asking her about records selling to a non-private person when the terminology I used was what the DES system uses to complete a Private Party Ammo transfer that I facilitate.

I still don't know how I'm supposed to know if the interpretation is what you and I originally believed.

If a guy comes in today and sells 500 rounds of whatever how do I know if he sold 500 rounds yesterday. Further, what am I supposed to keep record wise to ensure I didn't break the law. Apparently nothing. The system doesn't track seller information (which is good) so there's no way for DOJ to even enforce that. Also, I haven't tried yet, but in a single Private Party Ammo purchase I don't know what it will say if I put 1000 rounds. If it all goes through than apparently the "system" doesn't even care..

BTW: in my response to my rep I quoted the PC with some text to the effect of:

I must have misunderstood the PC:
(quote of pc here to DOJ rep)
--

She didn't reply in regards to needing to check with a supervisor or any corrections (yet).

[kemasa]

There are multiple aspects.

All ammo sales have to go through a ammo dealer.

Anyone who sells more than 500 rounds have to be a licensed ammo dealer, which presents a problem for private parties to sell more than 500 rounds per month.

An ammo dealer has no limit on the sales.

From what I have seen there is no record in the DES for who the seller is. As far as an ammo dealer, it really isn't their issue that the seller if selling more than they should without having a license. I am not sure that the CA DOJ really cares about private sellers since all need to go through a dealer, but the law allows them to go after the seller should to come to their attention.

If a person buys 400 rounds from 10 people, then there isn't an issue since none of the sellers are selling more than 500 per month. The system doesn't know where the ammo is coming from, one person or 100 people.