Shipping directly to an FFL licensee-Question

[DORINS9956]

If I am a resident in California and I want to purchase a handgun from another resident in California in a different county, can that person directly send the gun to a licensed FFL gun shop in California if the gun is ON the DOJ roster and LEGAL for sale in California, or can only two FFL licensees ship guns to each other within California?
I understand that the seller has to ship UPS 2nd Day Air, but can he/she do this without using an FFL and send the gun directly to a gun store to do the DROS to transfer the gun to the buyer?

[Librarian]

IF the receiving FFL is OK with it, you can ship private-person to FFL.

It's legal to do that; some FFLs have the business practice of not accepting shipments from non-FFLs.

[DORINS9956]

Thanks for the fast reply.
I would be appreciative of anything you can point me to that documents this in a statute or a regulation. It would help both me and the person who is selling the gun to relax a little more about the shipment.
Thanks again for the information.

[Librarian]

Thanks for the fast reply.
I would be appreciative of anything you can point me to that documents this in a statute or a regulation. It would help both me and the person who is selling the gun to relax a little more about the shipment.
Thanks again for the information.

Regrettably, that's not how laws generally work. Usually they specify what you MUST do, or MUST NOT do - but no mention of what you may do.

You would find that UPS allows shipments from an individual to an FFL; that's part of their published 'tariff'. But again, that's a business policy that happens to match the (lack of) restrictions.

No law anywhere is going to say 'it is legal for a private individual to ship a gun to an FFL'.

[SkyHawk]

Thanks for the fast reply.
I would be appreciative of anything you can point me to that documents this in a statute or a regulation. It would help both me and the person who is selling the gun to relax a little more about the shipment.
Thanks again for the information.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-common-or-contract-carrier

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State.

The most important thing is that the receiving FFL is willing to accept a transfer from a non licensee, and the non licensee providing the documents that the FFL wants (usually a clear color photocopy of ID).

[kemasa]

For handguns, often it can be cheaper to ship it through a dealer since UPS/Fedex require overnight shipping and non-licensees can't ship handguns USPS. Dealers can and the regional boxes can be fairly cheap.

[kemasa]

I understand that the seller has to ship UPS 2nd Day Air

Incorrect, overnight shipping is the policy of UPS and Fedex for handguns, long guns can ship ground.

[P5Ret]

The other thing to keep in mind is that your dealer may charge you any fee he/she see's fit to perform the transfer.

[pacrat]

OP, a very important question to ask any Ca-FFL, BEFORE YOU AGREE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM

Is, DO YOU DELIVER ON AN UNDETERMINED STATUS?

[DORINS9956]

To All:
This has been a real education! I thank you all for taking the time to post this. Just for laughs, I was quoted a fee of $150 from a dealer in the Bay Area to ship a handgun to a central coast dealer. I had purchased a handgun from these folks and also used their indoor range multiple times. So much for courtesy.
Thanks again, all.

[kemasa]

Check with other dealers. Not all have such high fees.

[DORINS9956]

Well, for packing a gun in a box and creating a shipping label in UPS, I would think a small fee of maybe $10 would be reasonable. That's over the cost of shipping itself, of course.
Not everything in business is maximizing profit. Sometimes a small courtesy to a good customer is paid back many times over. Greed is never forgotten however.

[kemasa]

Well, for packing a gun in a box and creating a shipping label in UPS, I would think a small fee of maybe $10 would be reasonable. That's over the cost of shipping itself, of course.
Not everything in business is maximizing profit. Sometimes a small courtesy to a good customer is paid back many times over. Greed is never forgotten however.

It depends. For shipping a handgun USPS, it is best to go to the post office in order to get a complete copy of the form 1508, which takes time and effort. If the FFL can have the item picked up with little effort, then the cost could be low. Remember, the FFL has to get a copy of the FFL that it is being sent to, log the firearm in, ship it and log it out. If the firearm is packed up and the firearm info can be quickly checked and then the box sealed, then there is less work for the FFL.Then consider if the firearm is lost in shipping, the FFL gets to deal with that as well. Are you going to pay more money should that happen?

Often people don't value the service that they want and think that a person who is in business to make money should do things fore free or really low cost, ignoring ALL the time and effort which it takes.

[Nardo1895]

A few other things to consider. These are based on my experiences which may be different that others.

You cannot ship firearms from most/all UPS Stores. They are not UPS employees but rather authorized vendors. You have to go to an actual UPS facility. You could lie about what is in the package, but that is pretty risky should something happen to it in transit.

Depending on who is working the counter, some Fed Ex employees will claim you cannot ship a firearm through them, or only a FFL can ship a firearm through them. Neither are correct but you may need to talk to a manager.

I do quite a bit of handgun shipping for non-FFLs. I use the USPS Flat Rate boxes or the Regional Boxes, whichever is cheaper. It takes me considerably more time to ship a firearm than it does to sell one. I don't have to do a 4473 or DROS for shipping a firearm, but I don't have to go to the Post Office for a sale. There is no way I'd go to the Post Office for $10. (As Kemasa indicated, I need to get the USPS form 1508 signed and stamped which requires a PO trip). However, I can still ship a handgun for a customer for a lot less than if the customer shipped it through UPS/Fed Ex. I'd shop around if you are being quoted a price that high.

Don't put anything on the outside of the box to indicate its a firearm and don't let anyone at the counter tell you you need to do that. I have had clerks want to do that.

[kemasa]

A
You cannot ship firearms from most/all UPS Stores. They are not UPS employees but rather authorized vendors. You have to go to an actual UPS facility. You could lie about what is in the package, but that is pretty risky should something happen to it in transit.

It applies to all UPS Stores since it is a different company and each location is typically a franchise.

Shipping anything through a UPS Store is a bad idea, especially if you provide the shipping label. I had an issue in which I discovered this, although it was fine in the end. I had a package to send back to the manufacturer for repair (not functioning when new). I received a label and dropped it off at the UPS Store. It turns out that they didn't scan it, so it didn't show up in the UPS system. It turns out that the UPS Store will be "nice" to receive a package with a label on it, but UPS isn't responsible for the package unless and until they actually receive it. If it never makes it to UPS, you are SOL. The question is whether the store is responsible when you didn't pay them a penny, as well you would need proof that you gave it to them (the local place didn't want to waste money printing a receipt for me when they didn't get any money). They are not going to make it easy to get paid and it is likely that you would have to sue in small claims court, then try to collect.