Antique Firearms

[Nardo1895]

Some (many?) out of state dealers will not ship an antique (pre-1899) cartridge firearm directly to a buyer, they insist it goes to a FFL. If I send my license to the selling FFL, I assume I end up in their A&D book. However, when I receive it, it does not meet the federal definition of a firearm and therefore should not go in my A&D book. No DROS and no waiting period either. I believe I should just keep documentation that the firearm received was an antique, correct? Just wondering if I could be facing issues if/when the seller's A&D book gets reviewed by ATF.

A long shot I know but I lay awake at night worrying about stuff like this :-)

[shootsocal_dave]

A lot of people mistake the NFA definition with the GCA definition. A antique is a antique and that doesn’t really change

[Nardo1895]

I'm not sure I know the difference. I'll research that. Bottom line - An antique does not go in my A&D book regardless of whether or not the sending FFL (mistakenly) puts it in his A&D book.

Thanks

[shootsocal_dave]

[Nardo1895]

I looked them up. They are pretty similarly worded. The key difference does appear to be that NFA (short barrel rifle or shotgun) cartridge firing firearms are not considered antiques unless ammo is no longer available through normal channels. The GCA definition does include cartridge firing pre-1899 firearms as antique although the wording is a bit confusing.

A. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;

You almost have to skip the verbiage within parentheses to get the clear meaning.

In regards to my original post, some selling (or shipping) FFLs will not recognize a firearm as an antique and will only ship to a FFL. My original issue was what I should do when I receive one for a client.

Thanks for pointing out the difference in NFA and GCA definitions.

[sbo80]

I bought an antique from someone who wanted my 03. It is not in my book. I don't see how it's a problem. If the seller gets audited, their book is checked and it will show sold out of their possession. ATF won't come searching every buyer to make sure they were subsequently entered into another book. Even if they did, it isn't a firearm, so there's no reason to log it. It's not my problem someone else's book is messed up.

[kemasa]

BTW, there is something like 3 difference antique definitions in the CA PC.

[Quiet]

BTW, there is something like 3 difference antique definitions in the CA PC.

Each definition applies to different CA laws.

For the purposes of determining if it's exempt from CA .50BMG rifles & assault weapons laws, then the definition from PC 16170(a) is utilized.

For the purposes of determining if it's exempt from CA generally prohibited weapons laws, then the definition from PC 16170(c) is utilized.

For all other purposes, the definition from PC 16170(b) is utilized.




Penal Code 16170
(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.
(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(c) As used in Section 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.