LGS says Hellfighter is not compliant

[Gigantor]

I told my LGS that is was using the Hellfighter pin with a houge kit. His objection was the pin. I guess I could go patriot pin, but the bigger issue is, if this doesn’t meet the letter of the law, there’s tons of people out there thinking they’re legal.

[superhondaz50]

The actual pin itself with a freedom fighter kit should be ok, from the regs:
"Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

"Disassembly of the firearm action” means the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed.

So with the Hellfighter pin, the action is pivoted using the front pin as a fulcrum. At this point the action is disrupted and the gun will fail to function as designed.

[WildeBuiltTactical]

Is the action actually interrupted? Is there enough separation to prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin?

[superhondaz50]

Is the action actually interrupted? Is there enough separation to prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin?

Depends on what trigger group you have with regards to the hammer height. In one of my tests I bobbed a hammer down so it couldn't strike the firing pin while the receiver was interrupted. Regardless, the regs stipulate that the action be interrupted, but they do not stipulate whether or not you can get one round to fire. If you get it to fire, the action is still interrupted to the point where it will not cycle, although you will prob damage your receiver. Not completing the cycle of fire in a semi auto (in my uneducated and unadvised opinion) meets the reg definition of an interrupted action.

Realistically, we need a test case for compliance parts combos such as this. I've purchased most complance products on the market for testing, currently the only ones that are close to solid with the regs are a diy tapped set screw, the freedom firghter, and the maglatch FNGR as they are absolutely not accessible from the outside of the receiver. Granted, my shop press is a tool and I was able to defeat all three with it by destroying the compliance device with it (although it also heavily damaged the receivers to the point of non function haha), so does that count as a tool? And does it count if the measure to remove the device is absolutely destructive to the device and receiver? IDK, that's not specified in the regs.

[taperxz]

I didn't change what I was saying once. You clearly misinterpreted what I wrote. I only commented on the one quote from the OP. You seem to have some pent-up anger.


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None at all. This is the FFL FORUM and you accused FFLs of being on the wrong side. I just want commenters like yourself to go away or maybe come back with a more informed idea of what FFLs actually have to do to survive in this state.

[Featureless]

I suspect several of these 'solutions' that are touted as 'CA compliant' aren't.
Like the PT AR Lok which is nothing more than a glorified bullet button, or the pistol grips that are advertised as not pistol grips because 'the web of the hand rides above the top of the trigger' or somesuch.

We know that the difference between CA compliant and illegal AW is cosmetic. So why flirt with something that looks like something the vendors say it's not?

I for one have gone full featureless. No pistol grip whatsoever, fixed stock and thread protector. The pistol grips have been removed; they're not still there with a fin attached or replaced with something that I can still wrap my hand around (like the original pistol grip) and a thread protector replaces the A2 flash hider. Not something that still looks like the flash hider.

My $.02 Take it for what you will.

[Tyke8319]

None at all. This is the FFL FORUM and you accused FFLs of being on the wrong side. I just want commenters like yourself to go away or maybe come back with a more informed idea of what FFLs actually have to do to survive in this state.

Well said!!!

[taperxz]

I suspect several of these 'solutions' that are touted as 'CA compliant' aren't.
Like the PT AR Lok which is nothing more than a glorified bullet button, or the pistol grips that are advertised as not pistol grips because 'the web of the hand rides above the top of the trigger' or somesuch.

We know that the difference between CA compliant and illegal AW is cosmetic. So why flirt with something that looks like something the vendors say it's not?

I for one have gone full featureless. No pistol grip whatsoever, fixed stock and thread protector. The pistol grips have been removed; they're not still there with a fin attached or replaced with something that I can still wrap my hand around (like the original pistol grip) and a thread protector replaces the A2 flash hider. Not something that still looks like the flash hider.

My $.02 Take it for what you will.

[Featureless]

You do realize a muzzle brake is not a flash hider don’t you?

You and I realize that. Does the State of California and its anti gun law enforcement realize that also? I'd rather not tempt prosecution and litigation even if I might win.

[capt14k]

None at all. This is the FFL FORUM and you accused FFLs of being on the wrong side. I just want commenters like yourself to go away or maybe come back with a more informed idea of what FFLs actually have to do to survive in this state.

Well that explains thing. Not sure why I even got the notification of the post. Didn't realize this was an FFL forum. Not that it changes my opinion of what the OP quoted the FFL as saying. For the record I believe I used the qualifier many not all.

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[kemasa]

For the record I believe I used the qualifier many not all.

So you wouldn't have a problem with someone saying that many customers are idiots?The fact is that you are still attacking the group. Open your business and see how it changes your view.

[taperxz]

Well that explains thing. Not sure why I even got the notification of the post. Didn't realize this was an FFL forum. Not that it changes my opinion of what the OP quoted the FFL as saying. For the record I believe I used the qualifier many not all.

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Well that explains a lot. How can you not know you’re in the FFL forum when you need to actually click on “FFL FORUM” to get here?

The lack of attention to detail is the exact reason how you could never understand what it’s like to operate a gun store in California.

Much like constantly correcting a customer that doesn’t know the difference between COUNTY AND COUNTRY All FFLs get this one

[acespawnshop]

Here's a thought for the OP or others who are confused a bit on what's legal in California or not. Why don't you personally try and call the Bureau of Firearms in Sacramento and get an answer directly from the DOJ about this issue? Let me save you some time. You're not going to get an answer from the DOJ and this is the problem that FFLs face constantly. New products are introduced all the time and some are good and some not so good. That's why I can see a particular dealer choosing to error on the side of caution and recommend a product that they know is compliant and sell rather than a different system that they are either not familiar with or believe in their opinion is not compliant.

The dealer is always trying to find the correct balance between what's been generally accepted as being CA legal and what is not. Simply put its not worth the headache and time sometimes to deal with some of these products that claim compliancy.


We've had a couple of these products that come our way that claim to make the firearm complaint and simply do not work as described online once the firearm arrives, and we've had to send those back to the FFL who sent them in to us.


Oh and if the OP is dead sure that he is correct about this particular product then maybe one of the other thousand or so FFLs in the state would gladly transfer the firearm for him. I don't see why people get upset if they don't get what they want and blame the guy who didn't want to facilitate their hearts desire.

[acespawnshop]

I jokingly once said to our IOI "you mean Usa is not a county here in California?"

[capt14k]

No you do not when using tapatalk. Notification pops up to thread. Takes directly to thread. Read post. Reply. Involves 2 taps.

I see now the reason notification to the thread popped up. Another tapatalk user that is on my friends list replied to the thread. This notification would appear even if this was on a completely different website. To see which forum thread is in you need to pull down from the top. I'm guessing the OP posted in FFL forum to rile some people up. Seems to have worked.

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