avoiding ITAR registration requrements.

[shootsocal_dave]

SO can you avoid ITAR requirements by treading lightly? If you only did AR assemblies (no cutting drilling milling etc) and handloading under .50 ammunition, it seems like you wouldn't need to register for ITAR.

Anyone have experience on this? I know there are gunsmithing and mfg definitions that differ from ATF to DDTC and I want to make sure I am compliant but I also don't want to register ITAR if I can avoid it. This is all based on a 07FFL.


As far as I can tell, BEING a mfg does not mean you need to pay ITAR, only IF you mfg something to their defemiotion


Paying the FAET is easy because I don't think Ill do over 50 a year and ammo is 11%.

[RoundEye]

SO can you avoid ITAR requirements by treading lightly? If you only did AR assemblies (no cutting drilling milling etc) and handloading under .50 ammunition, it seems like you wouldn't need to register for ITAR.

Anyone have experience on this? I know there are gunsmithing and mfg definitions that differ from ATF to DDTC and I want to make sure I am compliant but I also don't want to register ITAR if I can avoid it. This is all based on a 07FFL.


As far as I can tell, BEING a mfg does not mean you need to pay ITAR, only IF you mfg something to their defemiotion


Paying the FAET is easy because I don't think Ill do over 50 a year and ammo is 11%.

When I was deciding between and 01 and an 07, I understood that every 07 was subject to ITAR because as a manufacturer you have the "ability to export". That's kind of the impression that I got from the ATF during the interview as well when we mentioned it briefly.

[shootsocal_dave]

[RoundEye]

I agree that I don't think putting manufactured parts together to improve an otherwise already complete firearm would qualify. The big question is where does Gunsmithing cease and manufacturing begin...

[shootsocal_dave]

[caliguy93]

DDTC’s letter states that individuals who “do not actually manufacture ITAR-controlled firearms (including by engaging in the activities described below, which DDTC has found in specific cases to constitute manufacturing) need not register with DDTC – even if they have an FFL from ATF.” This is because the requirements for obtaining an FFL are separate and distinct of the requirements for registering under ITAR.

As DDTC does not have a definition for the term “manufacturing”, it relies on “the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of the term.”DDTC has found that the following instances do not require registration.

a) Occasional assembly of firearm parts and kits that do not require cutting, drilling, or machining;

b) Firearm repairs involving one-for-one drop-in replacement parts that do not require any cutting, drilling, or machining for installation;

c) Repairs involving replacement parts that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation;

d) Hydrographic paint or Cerakote application or bluing treatments for a firearm;

e) Attachment of accessories to a completed firearm without drilling, cutting, or machining—such as attaching a scope, sling, or light to existing mounts or hooks, or attaching a flash suppressor, sound suppressor, muzzle brake, or similar item to a pre- threaded muzzle;

f) Cosmetic additions and alterations (including engraving) that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or other aspects of firearm operation beyond its original capabilities;

g) Machining new dovetails or drilling and tapping new holes for the installation of sights which do not improve the accuracy or operation of the firearm beyond its original capabilities; and

h) Manual loading or reloading of ammunition of .50 caliber or smaller.

The guidance goes on to clarify that “[a]ctivities limited to the domestic sale or resale of firearms, the occasional assembly of firearms without drilling, cutting, or machining, and/or specific gunsmithing activities that do not improve the accuracy, caliber, or operations of the firearm beyond its original capabilities (as described above) are not manufacturing within the context of the ITAR. If you are not manufacturing, exporting, temporarily importing or brokering defense articles or services, you are not required to register with DDTC.”

Read More Here:

https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/25/ddtc-issues-guidance-on-itar-registration/

[audiophil2]

If you have an 07 it is very difficult to not pay ITAR. The occasional definition can be broken with as little as 1 assembly per year on a consistent basis. An 07 is a manufacturer and by applying for that FFL you are telling ATF you plan on actually manufacturing stuff. You have to submit a yearly record of manufactured guns. If you put zero every year or 49 every year ATF will eventually flag you as a regular manufacturer. I don't remember if the less than 50 even applies to an 07 like it does with an 01. Either way, just set those yearly fees aside so when you get popped oyu can pay it back. I've seen guys shut down because they went years evading ITAR and had to pay it all. Then they lose their 07 and when they apply for an 01 they have to state if they ever lost an ffl. ATF really does not care if oyu are not operating properly. They only care if they can catch you operating improperly.

The way manufacturing vs smithing was explained to me was a smith has to sell the gun and then install any accessories or change out any parts. A manufacturer can modify the gun prior to the sale. It is why Cabelas has rifle packages with scopes and rings taped to the gun box and it is all sold separately then after payment is made they install the parts.

My invoices show a breakdown of my mods at time of sale. I do not even turn guns into CA compliant versions until after they are sold. My pictures of compliant guns are all guns I sold after the fact. I still pay ITAR for my manufactured guns but I have an 01 and an 07 FFL that separates my dealer/smith stuff from my manufacturing stuff.

A firearms lawyer would be a better source.

[swell1957]

How close is the DDTC from deregulating non-auto firearms/parts from requiring ITAR?

Any updates since mid-2018?

[weaselfire]

I'm a 07 manufacturer who does not need to pay ITAR fees. ATF definitions of manufacturing and the Department of State definitions are not the same. ATF doesn't care about or enforce ITAR, that's a Department of State function.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[RoundEye]

I'm a 07 manufacturer who does not need to pay ITAR fees. ATF definitions of manufacturing and the Department of State definitions are not the same. ATF doesn't care about or enforce ITAR, that's a Department of State function.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Interesting. My interpretation of the statement below from the FFL Application was that unless you were exempted, if you held one of the licensees (FFL Type 06, 07 or 10) you were subject to ITAR.

must register as a manufacturer with the Department
of State unless exempted by the Directorate of Defense Trade Control (DDTC), regardless of whether the manufacturer actually exports any of the
items manufactured. Therefore, applicants intending to manufacture and/or export defense articles, as defined on the United States Munitions List
(Part 121 of the ITAR), may need to register with Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC). Questions should be directed to the DDTC
at 202-663-2980 or www.pmddtc.state.gov.

[shootsocal_dave]

If you have an 07 it is very difficult to not pay ITAR. The occasional definition can be broken with as little as 1 assembly per year on a consistent basis. An 07 is a manufacturer and by applying for that FFL you are telling ATF you plan on actually manufacturing stuff. You have to submit a yearly record of manufactured guns. If you put zero every year or 49 every year ATF will eventually flag you as a regular manufacturer. I don't remember if the less than 50 even applies to an 07 like it does with an 01. Either way, just set those yearly fees aside so when you get popped oyu can pay it back. I've seen guys shut down because they went years evading ITAR and had to pay it all. Then they lose their 07 and when they apply for an 01 they have to state if they ever lost an ffl. ATF really does not care if oyu are not operating properly. They only care if they can catch you operating improperly.

The way manufacturing vs smithing was explained to me was a smith has to sell the gun and then install any accessories or change out any parts. A manufacturer can modify the gun prior to the sale. It is why Cabelas has rifle packages with scopes and rings taped to the gun box and it is all sold separately then after payment is made they install the parts.

My invoices show a breakdown of my mods at time of sale. I do not even turn guns into CA compliant versions until after they are sold. My pictures of compliant guns are all guns I sold after the fact. I still pay ITAR for my manufactured guns but I have an 01 and an 07 FFL that separates my dealer/smith stuff from my manufacturing stuff.

A firearms lawyer would be a better source.

[shootsocal_dave]

Interesting. My interpretation of the statement below from the FFL Application was that unless you were exempted, if you held one of the licensees (FFL Type 06, 07 or 10) you were subject to ITAR.

[shootsocal_dave]

https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/25/ddtc-issues-guidance-on-itar-registration/

[RoundEye]

https://blog.princelaw.com/2016/07/2...-registration/
By Adam Kraut

This is good, and like you said the key being "manufacture". I did like how you left this out of your quote:

regardless of whether the manufacturer actually exports any of the
items manufactured

[shootsocal_dave]

The term “manufacturing” is not defined in the ITAR. In order to determine whether a firearms- related activity constitutes manufacturing for ITAR purposes, DDTC applies the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning of the term. Likewise, DDTC applies the ordinary, contemporary, common meaning for “gunsmithing,” which traditionally has broadly included designing, making, or repairing guns. Not all firearms (as defined by ATF regulation) are “defense articles” under the ITAR, however, and not all activities involving assembly of and repairs to firearms qualify as manufacturing for ITAR purposeshttp://pmddtc.state.gov/about/contact_information.html.
If you have any general follow-on questions, please feel free to contact the Response Team at (202) 663-1282 or DDTCResponseTeam@state.gov.
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