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  • Nardo1895
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2016
    • 965

    Ammo Transfers - New Thread

    After posting the question about charging sales tax on ammo transfers, I realized I didn't understand the ammo sales law as much as I thought I did. So rather than build on that string I thought I'd start a new one.

    I believe this link has the most current version of the ammo law:



    I believe it reconciles the differences between SB1235 and Prop 63 although I could be mistaken about that.

    Section 30364 (a) says:

    "The sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if an ammunition vendor in this state initially receives the ammunition and processes the transfer in compliance with this article, Article 3 (commencing with Section 30345), and Article 4 (commencing with Section 30355). An ammunition vendor is required to promptly and properly process those transactions. An ammunition vendor may charge a fee to process the transfer not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per transaction. An ammunition vendor is not required to house ammunition orders longer than 30 days."

    Section 30366 (a) (3) (b) also says:

    "When neither party in an ammunition sale is a vendor,... The vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per transaction processed."

    However, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 10, Section 4263 says this about the fee for a private party ammo sale:

    (a) If the purchaser will be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the fee shall not
    exceed five dollars ($5)
    .
    (b) If the purchaser will not be present for immediate delivery of the ammunition, the vendor
    may charge an additional storage fee as agreed upon with the purchaser prior to the vendor
    receiving the ammunition.


    So unless I'm missing something, there is a conflict in what we can charge for a private party ammo sale, and there is a $10 limit on what we can charge for an internet transfer, regardless if its for 50 rounds or 5000 rounds. We are allowed to charge an additional storage fee if we have to store private party sale ammo, but there does not appear to be any such provision for internet transfers.

    I'm pretty confused. Can someone enlighten me?
  • #2
    kemasa
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Jun 2005
    • 10706

    The fee seems to be limited for Private Party Transfers of ammo, which wouldn't be subject to sales tax.

    Online sales is different and I don't think that the fee is limited, plus sales tax isn't prevented. Remember with a CA PPT, if the FFL gets involved with finding the buyer and/or seller or gets involved with the price, then it is subject to sales tax, which doesn't affect the limited $10 fee. Also, a consignment is basically a CA PPT and sales tax applies.
    Kemasa.
    False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse.

    Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong.

    Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein

    Comment

    • #3
      Librarian
      Admin and Poltergeist
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Oct 2005
      • 44653

      No, the bill link is not the correct source.

      Proposition 63 had a complicated relationship with the code created by bills, amending some content, adding some, and deleting some other.

      For example, 30364, that you mention above, did not become law.

      Please use the direct links to the Penal Code sections. What is actually in the code is the result of Prop 63, the bills, and some provisions in bills that said 'if Prop 63 passes, do this'

      The 'ammunition vendor' sections are at http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...r=1.&article=3.

      Also note "Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 10, Section 4263" refers to California Code of Regulations, http://ccr.oal.ca.gov/
      Last edited by Librarian; 11-27-2018, 3:38 PM.
      ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

      Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

      Comment

      • #4
        Nardo1895
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2016
        • 965

        That clears it up. Thanks. I guess Google isn't always my friend :-)

        So based on 11 CCR 4263, we can charge a $5 fee for a face to face PPT of ammo. Plus a storage fee if the buyer isn't there when the seller drops off the ammo. No sale tax collected (unless we arrange the sale).

        Section 30312 (b) of the Penal Code mentions the transfer of ammo obtained by the buyer over the internet and sent to the ammo vendor for transfer, but does not list any fee limitations. This appears to be much like the transfer of a firearm obtained over the internet which would be subject to any fee we set, and sales tax.

        I'm curious if other FFLs/ammo vendors are charging sales tax on these.

        BTW, I'm not looking to maximize customer costs, I just want to stay within the law and collect a reasonable fee to cover my time and costs.

        Comment

        • #5
          acespawnshop
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Jun 2012
          • 2852

          Just curious here. Who here has ever facilitated a face to face ammo transfer?
          Interstate Transfers $100 (DROS included with the price)
          Email acesjewelryandloan@hotmail.com if you need us to do a transfer!
          Or call 626-968-5900

          Follow us on Facebook @acesjewelryandloan Need Cash Fast? Get a loan on your firearms here!

          Comment

          • #6
            Nardo1895
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2016
            • 965

            I have done two FTF ammo transfers. Don't ask me to explain why, I just said ok when asked to do it :-)

            Comment

            • #7
              taperxz
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Feb 2010
              • 19395

              Originally posted by acespawnshop
              Just curious here. Who here has ever facilitated a face to face ammo transfer?
              I've had a few calls but no one actually show up to do one. It will be a huge non compliance issue for law enforcement. Maybe they will hire a bunch of people to be ammo police?

              Comment

              • #8
                waygeekierthanu
                Vendor/Retailer
                • Sep 2010
                • 2723

                I have maybe 5 times. It's totally awkward, but it works. Always the same guy, under 500 rounds a month selling.

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