Documentation Saying Consignment is Roster Exempt?

[taperxz]

It sounds like he was DROSing them to the new buyer as a consignment return instead of a PPT. I don't think he ran them as a dealer sale. If he did there's a whole other issue.

Ohhh, I didn’t pick up on that possibility because I didn’t think that was possible. (Using the return to a buyer) nor would I ever imagined exploring that possibility.

I’ve actually never had to return a consignment gun to the original owner. We sell them pretty quickly in our location.

[taperxz]

10-4. We don't do our consignments as PPTs we do them through the Consignment option in DES, so I believe we would not be able to sell off-roster guns like we would with a PPT. Thanks for the explanation.

It sounds like he was DROSing them to the new buyer as a consignment return instead of a PPT. I don't think he ran them as a dealer sale. If he did there's a whole other issue.

What he said that I blacked and bold, is what lead me to believe he was selling consignment handguns using the “handgun dealer sale” option. It’s the only option that PREVENTS you from selling an off roster handgun.

Hopefully the OP can clarify

[acespawnshop]

Yes, hopefully a little more info would help, plus maybe if we get the details we can provide ideas as to how he could go about correcting these mistakes.

[acespawnshop]

We have a couple times. People with odd stuff wanting too much money for it. We do use the same tab (pawn redemptions) ALL the time.

[omgwtfbbq]

I think you mentioned that you don’t or have not done consignments.

Just an FYI, when you acquire a consignment in the DES, that generated paperwork is all you need in lieu of the worksheet. It’s all automated. Non the less, the sale is still DROSED as a PPT. (No DROS worksheet needed)

This is what we do at my work. We acquire the firearm through the DES consignment option, and also put it in our electronic bound book and inventory (we use Fastbound). When someone buys the firearm we process the DROS as through it were a gun from our inventory, using the appropriate "dealer sale" option in DES.

As I said in the OP, I was just recently (three weeks ago) hired as the sales manager for an FFL. The guy I replaced held most of the knowledge and it left with him.

We have been audited by the DOJ within the last 6 months and we passed with flying colors. To my knowledge we have not been filing consignment sales incorrectly in the past, but we've also haven't taken in an off-roster handgun on consignment....ever. We're a small, rural operation that deals almost entirely in long guns, particularly in the case of consignments. I'm simply trying to get my store's collective **** together for the future and get good, current P&P written for my employees. I want to make it clear, my question is not being posed wondering if our past actions were correct, but rather because I want my employees (and myself) to know what to do if we should encounter an off-roster handgun consignment, which again, has yet to happen (at least from what I can find in our records).

As to asking my DOJ rep, well, she doesn't answer her phone more than 50% of the time and doesn't return my calls. When she does answer, she's fairly rude and condescending. Not to mention, she doesn't do a very good job of explaining things.

[taperxz]

This is what we do at my work. We acquire the firearm through the DES consignment option, and also put it in our electronic bound book and inventory (we use Fastbound). When someone buys the firearm we process the DROS as through it were a gun from our inventory, using the appropriate "dealer sale" option in DES.

As I said in the OP, I was just recently (three weeks ago) hired as the sales manager for an FFL. The guy I replaced held most of the knowledge and it left with him.

We have been audited by the DOJ within the last 6 months and we passed with flying colors. To my knowledge we have not been filing consignment sales incorrectly in the past, but we've also haven't taken in an off-roster handgun on consignment....ever. We're a small, rural operation that deals almost entirely in long guns, particularly in the case of consignments. I'm simply trying to get my store's collective **** together for the future and get good, current P&P written for my employees. I want to make it clear, my question is not being posed wondering if our past actions were correct, but rather because I want my employees (and myself) to know what to do if we should encounter an off-roster handgun consignment, which again, has yet to happen (at least from what I can find in our records).

As to asking my DOJ rep, well, she doesn't answer her phone more than 50% of the time and doesn't return my calls. When she does answer, she's fairly rude and condescending. Not to mention, she doesn't do a very good job of explaining things.

You are doing it wrong. Big time. You said the manager left? What about the FFL and CFD holder? The responsible party?

It seems you are an employee. Run, as fast as you can.

[omgwtfbbq]

You are doing it wrong. Big time. You said the manager left? What about the FFL and CFD holder? The responsible party?

It seems you are an employee. Run, as fast as you can.

FFL/CFD holder acts as an owner/operator and is fairly hands-off from the day-to day business of the gun room outside of ordering and processing the occasional longgun DROS. He leaves much of the operations, procedures, and compliance up to the department manager. Hense, why I'm trying to get us into a good spot with the correct information.

[code_blue]

BBQ, are you sure these are consignments and not 2nd-hand dealer transactions?

Just making sure. Some of the info given seems sort of like consignment and sort of like 2nd-hand transactions.

[omgwtfbbq]

You are doing it wrong. Big time. You said the manager left? What about the FFL and CFD holder? The responsible party?

It seems you are an employee. Run, as fast as you can.

Also when you say "you're doing it wrong" are you meaning wrong as in not doing it so that a customer can be a non-roster-exempt person and buy an off-roster gun through the consignment process or do you mean illegal?

I'm less concerned with the former and much more concerned with the latter.

[taperxz]

Also when you say "you're doing it wrong" are you meaning wrong as in not doing it so that a customer can be a non-roster-exempt person and buy an off-roster gun through the consignment process or do you mean illegal?

I'm less concerned with the former and much more concerned with the latter.

[omgwtfbbq]

Both.

It’s not the stores inventory to begin with. As a consignment, you are selling the firearm for a customer of yours. It’s a person to person transfer.

If two people come in for a ppt, and you hold their gun for 240 hrs. Is it in your inventory? No!

A consignment is no different except for the fact that since your store is involved in the sale of their gun, you collect sales tax.

Except on consignment we're required by the DOJ to hold the gun for some time before we can release the firearm to a buyer so the doj can ensure the seller is the legal owner of the gun/the gun isn't stolen, during that time, the gun must be put in our bound book. Further, if a seller wants to take their firearm back from us, we have to DROS it back to them. Unless I grossly misunderstand the regs, the firearm is the property of the FFL until someone gets the firearm DROSed to them, either the seller or a buyer. So really it's not as similar to a PPT as you make it seem.

I understand that the practice my employer had been doing is incorrect, and while working today I wrote new procedure, and ran it through our site rep (who actually answered her phone today) that will clear up the issue.

I appreciate everyone's responses for bringing to light an issue I didn't even know was there. Now I can hopefully get the department moving in a better direction.

[acespawnshop]

You have to hold the firearm for 30 days. So on day 21 put it for sale and it won’t leave until day 31 and you’re covered.

Yes guns must be in your bound book when you acquire them.

Yes if the seller wants their gun back you DROS it to them using the consignment return option

You’re reading too much into the whole ownership part. When you’re consigning it you’re the trustee of the property in question and fulfilling an agreement with the consignor to broker the deal on their behalf.

But you do process these still as a PPT. Thus they are roster exempt and 1-30 exempt however as mentioned tax is collected since the dealer has been involved in the sale of the property.

[acespawnshop]

If you wish I can email you copies of our customer agreement forms and consignment contract we’ve used in the past if that helps you. Just PM me your email address if you want them.