Documentation Saying Consignment is Roster Exempt?

[omgwtfbbq]

I've read several times on here that consignment handgun sales are roster-exempt, but I've never seen anyone quote a regulation to that effect. The only think I can find on the DOJ website is it saying consignment "returns" are exempt. I just took over as manager of a the gun department of a hunting/fishing store and I've run into my first consignment off-roster handgun. Could someone please point me in the direction of the regulation so I can put it in out policy and procedure manual? My google-fu has failed me today.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[9mmContagion]

It’s a private party sale. Therefore, exempt

[PartyBarge]

California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 4070.

Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale
As of January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

[kemasa]

It has to be transferred as a CA PPT, which means you need to get the seller to fill out a DROS worksheet, along with everything else.

[omgwtfbbq]

It has to be transferred as a CA PPT, which means you need to get the seller to fill out a DROS worksheet, along with everything else.

10-4. We don't do our consignments as PPTs we do them through the Consignment option in DES, so I believe we would not be able to sell off-roster guns like we would with a PPT. Thanks for the explanation.

[omgwtfbbq]

California Code of Regulations, title 11, section 4070.

Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale
As of January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

Yes, this is the passage I've found as well but it only refers to "consignment returns" as been exempt, meaning, someone who put a gun on consignment but wants it back would be exempt. Not the sale itself, at least it doesn't appear that way unless you are processing the "consignment" as a PPT.

[kemasa]

10-4. We don't do our consignments as PPTs we do them through the Consignment option in DES, so I believe we would not be able to sell off-roster guns like we would with a PPT. Thanks for the explanation.

Huh? There is only consignment REDEMPTION (return) in the DES, which doesn't apply to when you are selling it to someone. You are supposed to do consignments as a CA PPT, talk to your CA DOJ Inspector.

The DROS options are:

Handgun Transactions

Dealer Handgun Sale
Private Party Handgun Transfer
Peace Officer Non-Roster Handgun Sale
Exempt Handgun Sale
Pawn/Consignment Handgun Redemption
Curio/Relic Handgun Sale
Olympic Pistol Sale
Handgun Loan

Long Gun Transactions

Dealer Long Gun Sale
Private Party Long Gun Transfer
Pawn/Consignment Long Gun Redemption
Curio/Relic Long Gun Sale
Long Gun Loan

[taperxz]

10-4. We don't do our consignments as PPTs we do them through the Consignment option in DES, so I believe we would not be able to sell off-roster guns like we would with a PPT. Thanks for the explanation.

Huh? There is only consignment REDEMPTION (return) in the DES, which doesn't apply to when you are selling it to someone. You are supposed to do consignments as a CA PPT, talk to your CA DOJ Inspector.

The DROS options are:

UH, what Kemasa said.

[acespawnshop]

UH, what Kemasa said.

Things that make you go, huh?

[acespawnshop]

I’m sure that this opens a whole different can of worms for the OP. I wouldn’t be happy if I were a consignor and the FFL didn’t process this as a PPT. Good luck with this one.

[taperxz]

Uh, ya.

Basically this means he has been doing rostered guns as dealer sales which screws the buyer on 1 in 30, non rostered as exempt handgun (same 30 day issue). And none of the transactions are being recorded properly, including succession of ownership and the firearms being still being owned by the seller but not? And, possessed by the store?
This also brings up potential issues of dealer sales of non roster guns?
Not even addressing DOJ audit issues.

[taperxz]

It has to be transferred as a CA PPT, which means you need to get the seller to fill out a DROS worksheet, along with everything else.

[acespawnshop]

Uh, ya.

Basically this means he has been doing rostered guns as dealer sales which screws the buyer on 1 in 30, non rostered as exempt handgun (same 30 day issue).

I don't think it screws the buyer on the 1 in 30 since consignment returns are 1 in 30 exempt. Just like pawn redemptions. The only way it would be an issue is if the auditor actually checks your DES acquisitions to see if these "consignment returns" Actually went back to person who placed them on consignment.

And none of the transactions are being recorded properly, including succession of ownership and the firearms being still being owned by the seller but not?

This is an obvious one here. They were not processed properly and would bring up issues in the audit process. I would imagine the AFS would show the seller still in possession of this firearm and then subsequently the new buyer in possession of the same firearm. But I am not very familiar with how the AFS processes these.

This also brings up potential issues of dealer sales of non roster guns?

Well at least the OP indicated he did not process these as non rostered firearms in his earlier post. But yeah, this would be a huge mistake.

Not even addressing DOJ audit issues.

That's going to be a huge issue. I know in our prior DOJ audits they were VERY interested in seeing the DES acquisitions to verify that in the case of pawn redemptions that we showed the firearm being acquired in the DES and returned to the SAME person that we acquired it from. In this case he's going to have problems because he's telling the DES that the consignment return transaction is going back to the person who put it on consignment when in fact that's not what he did. Good luck OP I'm not sure how you're going to rectify this one.

[taperxz]

I don't think it screws the buyer on the 1 in 30 since consignment returns are 1 in 30 exempt. Just like pawn redemptions. The only way it would be an issue is if the auditor actually checks your DES acquisitions to see if these "consignment returns" Actually went back to person who placed them on consignment.
.

[acespawnshop]

It sounds like he was DROSing them to the new buyer as a consignment return instead of a PPT. I don't think he ran them as a dealer sale. If he did there's a whole other issue.