Returning firearm to seller after failed PPT

[G-forceJunkie]

I would like to educate a local FFL who advised me today, during a PPT, that if the buyer was ineligible, the seller would have to be charged $25 to dros it back to him. Can someone set me straight on the process of returning a firearm to the seller? Applicable Penal codes would be helpful as well. As i understand it:

1) buyer comes back prohibited. DOJ call the dealer and tells them the buyer is prohibited. Dealer calls buyer and tells him he can't have the firearm. Dealer calls the seller and says the buyer failed, come pick up your gun. Do they automatically do a background check on the seller?

2)Assuming seller comes back not prohibited, if within the 30 day DROS window, dealer calls customer support center, gets the NTN number, and can give the firearm back to the seller. Does a 4473 have to be filed out by the seller upon pickup?

3) If the transaction has gone past the 30 day DROS window, the seller would have to re Dros and pay $25 to get his firearm back.

4) if seller and buyer come back as prohibited, FFL hands gun over to local PD. Does the seller have the option of finding another buyer or friend to get the firearm before giving it to the PD? Since that is like starting over, a $35 fee would be charged for the Dros, correct?

Thanks for any help.

[edgerly779]

FFL is a screwup and wrong. Clear that firearm be immediately returned to seller . Who is the ffl so we can know who not to do business with.

[TKM]

Seller returns, picks up gun, walks away.

[BONECUTTER]

DOJ denied buyer.
DOJ runs background check on seller.
DOJ calls dealer and says either:
A. Seller is OK to release firearm back too (dealer does so)
B. Seller is denied and dealer is to give to local PD per PC.

28050.

(a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, in accordance with this chapter in order to comply with Section 27545.
(b) The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm.
(c) The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with Section 27540.
(d) If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 26815 and 27540, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of Section 27500, 27505, 27515, 27520, 27525, 27530, or 27535. If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 18000, 18005, and 34000.

[saudadeii]

OK, so just be be clear, a DROS on the seller is not needed to return the firearm?

I am not prohibited, but not exempt. There should be no issue with a background check.

If I sell an off roster handgun and the buyer fails, do I get my gun back?

[edgerly779]

Who is the ffl?

[johnthomas]

This happened to my son. Buyer didn't pass, FFL called my son, he went down and was told, since the buyer didn't pass, the transfer never went through, the gun was still in my son's name, here you go, thank you very much.

[hermosabeach]

As a seller, I put it in writing what I charge to take the gun back.....

It’s easy enough to educate the FFL on the process... or it should be...

I believe for consignment, the seller needs to record the guns as ownership was transferred to the shops inventory.

[kemasa]

I would like to educate a local FFL who advised me today, during a PPT, that if the buyer was ineligible, the seller would have to be charged $25 to dros it back to him. Can someone set me straight on the process of returning a firearm to the seller? Applicable Penal codes would be helpful as well. As i understand it:

1) buyer comes back prohibited. DOJ call the dealer and tells them the buyer is prohibited. Dealer calls buyer and tells him he can't have the firearm. Dealer calls the seller and says the buyer failed, come pick up your gun. Do they automatically do a background check on the seller?

Yes. A background check is run on the seller and the DOJ gives the FFL a NTN for putting on the 4473.

2)Assuming seller comes back not prohibited, if within the 30 day DROS window, dealer calls customer support center, gets the NTN number, and can give the firearm back to the seller. Does a 4473 have to be filed out by the seller upon pickup?

No, the CA DOJ gives the NTN when they call saying that the buyer is denied, the FFL does not have to call anyone. Yes, a 4473 has to be filled out.

3) If the transaction has gone past the 30 day DROS window, the seller would have to re Dros and pay $25 to get his firearm back.

That would be an issue. I suspect it could be DROS'd, but the law says that if it can't be immediately returned to the seller, it has to be turned over to the police. The denial will occur within the first 10 days, unless it is delayed. Then if the buyer is denied, a background check is run on the seller, which starts the 30 days for that check.

4) if seller and buyer come back as prohibited, FFL hands gun over to local PD. Does the seller have the option of finding another buyer or friend to get the firearm before giving it to the PD? Since that is like starting over, a $35 fee would be charged for the Dros, correct?

The seller has the option of picking up the firearm before it is turned over to the police. No, the seller doesn't have the option of finding another buyer if they don't pick it up. If the seller wants to sell it, then it could be done as a CA PPT if the new buyer is a CA resident.

OK, so just be be clear, a DROS on the seller is not needed to return the firearm?

Correct.

I am not prohibited, but not exempt. There should be no issue with a background check.

If I sell an off roster handgun and the buyer fails, do I get my gun back?

You should, but you should check with the FFL to make sure that they know what they are doing.

[Burbur]

To be fair to the dealer, CA DOJ has been screwing this up a lot lately.

They claim they run a NICS on the seller, simultaneous to the purchaser, but I think they're lying. If you get a "delay", and wait until day 30, it's "expired" but if you have a PPT denied or rescinded, it takes them 5 minutes to come back with a NICS NTN on the seller.

I don't believe their story.

We should begin calling and requesting the seller NTN, "just in case" on every PPT.

[M76]

I had a buyer denied, shop said pick up your
gun within 10 days or it's turned over to PD.

[G-forceJunkie]

To be fair to the dealer, CA DOJ has been screwing this up a lot lately.

Thank you. I am not going to name the shop because they claim the $25 re dros fee is what the DOJ is telling them to do. They haven't had it happen yet, so my goal of this thread is to get factual info for them. Thanks for the help everyone.

[BagelBites]

Yes. A background check is run on the seller and the DOJ gives the FFL a NTN for putting on the 4473.



No, the CA DOJ gives the NTN when they call saying that the buyer is denied, the FFL does not have to call anyone. Yes, a 4473 has to be filled out.



That would be an issue. I suspect it could be DROS'd, but the law says that if it can't be immediately returned to the seller, it has to be turned over to the police. The denial will occur within the first 10 days, unless it is delayed. Then if the buyer is denied, a background check is run on the seller, which starts the 30 days for that check.



The seller has the option of picking up the firearm before it is turned over to the police. No, the seller doesn't have the option of finding another buyer if they don't pick it up. If the seller wants to sell it, then it could be done as a CA PPT if the new buyer is a CA resident.



Correct.



You should, but you should check with the FFL to make sure that they know what they are doing.

All of this. 100% correct.