DES REFUSING TO CHANGE TO UNDETERMINED

[acespawnshop]

Today is day 31 for my customer, he has been on Delay for a month. I called DES today asking why it has not been switched to Undetermined, he confirmed that 30 days has lapsed and today is day 31 and not sure why it wont switch over and that I would just have to wait for management to take a look at it.

I told him this is a straight up violation of AB500 and that the customer is here wanting to deliver this firearm. He said that there is nothing he can do and management would have to call me back.

[acespawnshop]

I have printed a copy that is time stamped date and time today that shows "delay"

I called DES helpline again and they said "they are really busy this am"

[kemasa]

Too busy to follow the law it seems. The problem is that the only means to deal with it is a lawsuit, which is expensive and takes a lot of time, but they can have people arrested. Quite different.

[acespawnshop]

Too busy to follow the law it seems. The problem is that the only means to deal with it is a lawsuit, which is expensive and takes a lot of time, but they can have people arrested. Quite different.

Yea, a lawsuit was my suggestion, if you know any attorneys who want to take it up for the cause feel free to have them call us.

[acespawnshop]

Ok called DES at 9:40 this am and its 3:12 and I still don't have a response other than "they will change it to 'undetermined' when they get around to it"

[scoutpup99]

Last one I had took almost a week to change to undetermined and another week for them to send me the new ntn (nics) number to put on the 4473.

[acespawnshop]

Last one I had took almost a week to change to undetermined and another week for them to send me the new ntn (nics) number to put on the 4473.

Really? Wow, did they give you any explanation as to why? Wondering if they are hoping people will just quit and give up, maybe they aren't too happy with dealers releasing on Undetermined Status?

[taperxz]

Really? Wow, did they give you any explanation as to why? Wondering if they are hoping people will just quit and give up, maybe they aren't too happy with dealers releasing on Undetermined Status?

Don't know why? The language "may deliver the gun" is on both for "approved" transactions as well as "undetermined"

[acespawnshop]

What's crazy is that they just don't care. I told them in the 2nd conversation that they cant just do this. They've had 30 days to figure this out. This is exactly why the legislature passed AB500 and it was signed into law. They're just overstepping again. Problem is I don't think Becerra cares at all and probably welcomes lawsuits. Heck it worked wonders for Kamala Harris, now she's a senator and probably has a crack at the DNC nod for 2020.

[scoutpup99]

When I asked why it was taking so long for then to switch to undetermined they said it is a manual process. When they switch it to undetermined they have to get a new ntn number from nics for the 4473.

[BONECUTTER]

Did they give you the NICS approval number over the phone already. My experience is after the 30 someone manually runs the NICS again and changes to undetermined. Since you can't legally deliver without that number your stuck anyway.

Ask to be transferred to their firearms clearance department.

This has happened to me many times on people just passing the 10 days and it wont change to approved.

[caliguy93]

Did they give you the NICS approval number over the phone already. My experience is after the 30 someone manually runs the NICS again and changes to undetermined. Since you can't legally deliver without that number your stuck anyway.

Ask to be transferred to their firearms clearance department.

This has happened to me many times on people just passing the 10 days and it wont change to approved.

What NICS approval number? have never seen that number on any dros.. I was actually under the impression that CA doesn't even use the NICS system and use their own. The only number we have to reference is a DROS number which we have when the transaction is initiated.

[BONECUTTER]

What NICS approval number? have never seen that number on any dros.. I was actually under the impression that CA doesn't even use the NICS system and use their own. The only number we have to reference is a DROS number which we have when the transaction is initiated.

So federally its illegal to deliver a firearm if a background check has not been done in 30 days. When undetermined the DOJ runs a NICS and writes the NTN # on the Undetermined letter and mails it to you. You can also call ahead of time and get it from them.

You write the NTN number and date in box 19a and 19b on the 4473 to stay compliant with ATF.

DOJ uses NICS and their own system.

[caliguy93]

So federally its illegal to deliver a firearm if a background check has not been done in 30 days. When undetermined the DOJ runs a NICS and writes the NTN # on the Undetermined letter and mails it to you. You can also call ahead of time and get it from them.

You write the NTN number and date in box 19a and 19b on the 4473 to stay compliant with ATF.

DOJ uses NICS and their own system.

Ah I see, iv only had it happen once.. now I need to find that letter

[taperxz]

Ah I see, iv only had it happen once.. now I need to find that letter

Just call them. Give them the DROS number and they will give you the NICS number