Interstate / Intrafamiliar Off Roster Question

[lanzador49]

I have tried to decipher the various threads on topic, but have some follow up questions if someone might indulge me.

Son is resident out of California; father California resident. Son purchases handgun that is not on California roster and wants to give it as a gift to father in California.

My understanding is that the transfer must be done through an FFL in California. Correct?

I also understand that the transfer is exempt from California roster. Correct?

I also understand that firearm still subject to 10 day wait, and 1 in 30 rule. Correct?

Question 1: can son legally enter California with the off roster handgun?

2: Can son then just give it to dad? Or must the gun be brought by son to California FFL for the transfer?

3: How about if son is not in California, and dad is visiting son out of state...can dad come back with it and do the Report of Operation of Law Transfer? (my inclination here is that, since it's interstate, the firearm must be sent or brought to the FFL by the out of state son first).

Thank you. Any other input would be appreciated.

[Librarian]

I have tried to decipher the various threads on topic, but have some follow up questions if someone might indulge me.

Son is resident out of California; father California resident. Son purchases handgun that is not on California roster and wants to give it as a gift to father in California.

My understanding is that the transfer must be done through an FFL in California. Correct?

I also understand that the transfer is exempt from California roster. Correct?

I also understand that firearm still subject to 10 day wait, and 1 in 30 rule. Correct?

Question 1: can son legally enter California with the off roster handgun?

2: Can son then just give it to dad? Or must the gun be brought by son to California FFL for the transfer?

3: How about if son is not in California, and dad is visiting son out of state...can dad come back with it and do the Report of Operation of Law Transfer? (my inclination here is that, since it's interstate, the firearm must be sent or brought to the FFL by the out of state son first).

Thank you. Any other input would be appreciated.

1: yes

2: NO, cannot just give - federal law requires the transfer between resident of different states must use an FFL, and in the case of handguns, that FFL must be in the state of residence of the person who receives the gun.

3: NO - different part of Federal law makes it illegal to bring guns from out of state 'without benefit of FFL' if there's a transfer involved.

See the sticky - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873

[lanzador49]

Thank you. Read that other thread - looks like you've encountered all the possible hypotheticals...

So, son (non-California resident) can either (a) send the handgun to an FFL in California, or (b) bring it and walk in to an FFL in California, to do the transfer to father (California resident)...subject to 10 day wait and 1 in 30.

[kemasa]

I have heard, but not confirmed, that it is exempt from the 1 in 30. Someone (not just a random person) mentioned that in another thread.

As said, it has to go through a CA FFL.

[shootsocal_dave]

I did a 15+ gun Intrafamilar transfer and called the DOJ, they told me to use exempt handgun, and check the 1/30 exempt button because its a family transfer it does not count as a purchase.

[BONECUTTER]

I have heard, but not confirmed, that it is exempt from the 1 in 30. Someone (not just a random person) mentioned that in another thread.

As said, it has to go through a CA FFL.

I did a 15+ gun Intrafamilar transfer and called the DOJ, they told me to use exempt handgun, and check the 1/30 exempt button because its a family transfer it does not count as a purchase.

I have never seen a family transfer exemption to the 1 in 30.

The PC outlines the only exemptions:
VII & VIII are muddy to me, someone with better legaleze can explain but I dont see out of state family transfers listed so it looks like they need to follow the 1 in 30 rules. I went over this with DOJ a few years back and my rep could not find anything saying it was legal to skip the 1 in 30.... A customer was gifted about 8 firearms and had to do one a month.

[Librarian]

I have never seen a family transfer exemption to the 1 in 30.

The PC outlines the only exemptions:


VII & VIII are muddy to me, someone with better legaleze can explain but I dont see out of state family transfers listed so it looks like they need to follow the 1 in 30 rules. I went over this with DOJ a few years back and my rep could not find anything saying it was legal to skip the 1 in 30.... A customer was gifted about 8 firearms and had to do one a month.

That's my reading as well.

If DOJ wants to grant an indulgence now and again, I guess that's OK, but ordinarily we complain about folks just making their own laws without the legislature.

(And, 12072 is gone, since 2012. The part you quote is now PC 27535, with more exceptions at 26950 and following)

[BONECUTTER]

That's my reading as well.

If DOJ wants to grant an indulgence now and again, I guess that's OK, but ordinarily we complain about folks just making their own laws without the legislature.

(And, 12072 is gone, since 2012. The part you quote is now PC 27535, with more exceptions at 26950 and following)

Thanks for the updated PC...Since the re-numbing all my bookmarks are worthless.
I won't do anything outside of the PC unless my current Rep puts it in writing...cause .. you know.

[kemasa]

I just checked and was told that interstate intrafamilial transfers are exempt from the 1 in 30. The FSC exemption to use is X02 (although they still need a FSC) and mark the comment that it is an intrafamilial transfer. You also need to retain documentation, including a copy of the ID of who it is coming from, to confirm it is really from them.

As to the CA PC, it would take some time to see if it works that way. You would have to check to see where it talks about the intrafamilial transfer and how that relates to the DROS process.

You can choose to ignore, confirm or something else with regards to this. YMMV.

[shootsocal_dave]

intrastate intrafamilar transfers are "kind of new". I say that becuase I think the DOJ wrote itself in a corner and never actually made a exemption for these transfers, and realized they should have. So it seems they are making it work.

[lanzador49]

The person who is the subject of this hypothetical (!!!) received the item and the FFL that person used (Sacramento Gun Club) said that the 1:30 rule ABSOLUTELY applies. No exceptions except the specific ones listed...just fyi. Pretty nice gun, too....! The person received a Sig p320 Compact (sans magazines, of course). The person can get it in 10 days.

[painkiller]

Clear as mud here.i always thought intrafamiliar transfers exempted the 1/30 like kamesa said

[lanzador49]

Mud? Cement.

Here's my conclusion and understanding (from within the cement)(librarian...please offer corrections...)

1. A linear family member (grandfather - father - son... as opposed to lateral family member such as cousins, aunts, uncles...) may gift an off roster handgun to a California resident BUT IT MUST BE DONE THROUGH AN FFL.

2. Either the out of state party has the firearm sent to a California FFL, or brings it personally to the California FFL, for the transfer. The recipient in California can't just bring it in on his own; the out of state owner must be present to prove they are out of state at the FFL.

3. The out of state person can send it himself or herself, but it depends on the FFL in California as to whether they will receive a gun from a private party or whether they only accept from another FFL from out of state. Also - there is a question as to whether a non-licensed person can walk into FedEx or UPS or USPS and ship a firearm on their own.

4. There is a 10-Day waiting period.

5. The transaction is subject to the 1:30 rule (Penal Code Section 27535)

6. The Giftor must include a LETTER OF GIFT stating that they are over 21, giving it to someone over 21, they are out of state, they are the legal owner of the firearm, and that no consideration was paid by the California recipient for the gift. Some FFL's require that the letter be NOTARIZED. The letter must include a copy of BOTH SIDES of the out of state Driver's license; the letter must include identifying information for the firearm (brand, model, caliber, serial number).

I'm sure that there are other issues - i.e., if both giftor an giftee are California residents, they can simply send in the DOJ form with a $19 fee, but that is a different issue (Penal Code Section 27875, exemptions from using a dealer for private party transactions). The analysis above would apply to INTRAFAMILY and INTERSTATE transactions.

Yeah - clear as cement.

[KimE65]

Here's my question:
If my son lives in another state but is moving back to California and wants to gift me an off roster gun, does he first have to register the firearm using the New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership then I submit the Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction form? Or, can I just take possession of the firearm and then submit the Intra-Familial Firearm Transaction form and not bother with the New Resident form?

[325inthe510]