Ca. Compliant kits / Ar 15

[Tyke8319]

I am having a few customers trying to tell me that certain "kits" that change the angle of the standard AR pistol grip makes them CA Compliant. I disagree whole heartedly!
Has anyone encountered the "Ledesma Arms AR15/10 Featureless CA. Comp. Kit"?
Personally, I think their assessment of CA. Compliant "featureless" pistol grip is a bunch of hooey...

[BONECUTTER]

I would never transfer one of those....

[broadside]

Its the same logic that all the other featureless grip options go by, its just that this grip still looks like a pistol grip rather than just a blob behind the lower. Web above the top of the trigger.

All that said, that grip is asking for trouble if LEO wants it to be.

[Tyke8319]

When I asked the mfg. if they had received DOJ clearance on their "grip" here's the response:

"The grip meets all requirements set by the DOJ penal code. The DOJ will never issue an approval letter for any product, if anyone tells you they have an official letter they are lying. We are in contact with the DOJ daily to make sure that we are in compliance with all products. We also sell full rifles built with the grip and the DOJ has inspected and has no issues with the rifles being sold as featureless rifles.

Juan
Trident Gunsmithing LLC

The thing that bothers me is the fact that there are those that are after the $$ and failing to consider that if the law is continually pushed, someday, some legislator is going to push through a bill that totally outlaws anything that even remotely resembles an AR configuration.

[BONECUTTER]

When I asked the mfg. if they had received DOJ clearance on their "grip" here's the response:

"The DOJ will never issue an approval letter for any product, if anyone tells you they have an official letter they are lying. "

The thing that bothers me is the fact that there are those that are after the $$ and failing to consider that if the law is continually pushed, someday, some legislator is going to push through a bill that totally outlaws anything that even remotely resembles an AR configuration.

To each his/her own.

I was told I was breaking the law in the mid 2000's when selling a stripped AR lower.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold complete lowers with a Prince 50.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold a complete AR with a Prince 50.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold a complete lower with a bullet button.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold a complete AR with a bullet button.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold a featureless AR with a monsterman grip.
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold non Banned by name Colt's
I was told I was breaking the law when I sold complete lowers without CA maglocks.
I was told I was breaking the law when I single shot converted firearms


The list goes on and on for the last 15 years I have worked in this industry.
Everyone is going to have their own level on comfort and will do what they are comfortable with. Some shops did and sold things I never would of. It's their call.

[Nardo1895]

I'm not sure I'd transfer one, but I'd be hard pressed to say why other than I'm overly cautious. But objectively, that grip sits at about the same angle as a Browning BAR (civilian). Why wouldn't it be compliant?

"A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon." is the one in question, but if that grip is non-compliant, couldn't the same be said of any walnut stock with a pistol grip?

[acespawnshop]

oops

[Tyke8319]

I think there's a bit of a difference between a "grip" (as you call it) and a stock.

[WildeBuiltTactical]

Anyone want to comment on certain "Kits" on ARs that only allow the upper and lower to separate about an 1/8in? My gut says just because there is a small gap between the upper/lower, but the hammer can still engage the firing pin, its not legal as the action is not disassembled. Thoughts?

[Burbur]

30 second opinion (no sources will be cited)

That Ledesma grip does not appear to put the web of forefinger and thumb above the upper most portion of the exposed trigger shoe.

Devices like 33.3 Tactical and JT Hellfighter while possibly allowing the hammer to drop, definitely interrupt the action from cycling.

[Gunslinger123]

I am a FFL dealer in FL and before 2018 sold quite a few of AR's to customers in CA. I have a buyer that bought 2 AR's and I did the call in to the CA ATF before 2018. He claims if I install the Mag Lock, Patriot pin and use the Bravo pistol grip combo butt I am in compliance. I must admit I see these different items sold individually and claim they are CA compliant. Any truth to any of this or has CA wrote the new law so basically there isn't a compliant AR?

[Califpatriot]

I am a FFL dealer in FL and before 2018 sold quite a few of AR's to customers in CA. I have a buyer that bought 2 AR's and I did the call in to the CA ATF before 2018. He claims if I install the Mag Lock, Patriot pin and use the Bravo pistol grip combo butt I am in compliance. I must admit I see these different items sold individually and claim they are CA compliant. Any truth to any of this or has CA wrote the new law so basically there isn't a compliant AR?

Not an FFL, but I'm pretty sure you can entirely avoid the CA AW laws by basically disconnecting the upper and lower entirely prior to shipping. No modifications necessary on your part. Don't need to do any compliance solutions, don't need to change out muzzle devices, grips, stocks, anything else. Wish companies like PSA would do this for the California market.

[acespawnshop]

I am a FFL dealer in FL and before 2018 sold quite a few of AR's to customers in CA. I have a buyer that bought 2 AR's and I did the call in to the CA ATF before 2018. He claims if I install the Mag Lock, Patriot pin and use the Bravo pistol grip combo butt I am in compliance. I must admit I see these different items sold individually and claim they are CA compliant. Any truth to any of this or has CA wrote the new law so basically there isn't a compliant AR?

ATF wouldn't be the place to ask since they are not concerned with CA laws regarding so called assault weapons. Cal DOJ wont take an official stance on any product either hence all the confusion on the subject.

If the rifle is centerfire semiautomatic and has certain features its considered an AW. Such as your standard AR-15 in Florida. Here you can either pin the stock so it doesn't telescope, install the fin grip, and remove the flash hiders then you wont have an AW anymore. Or you can do the Pin that makes it into a break action to remove the magazine and you would be fine. Its sorta confusing to most out of state dealers. That's why there are all these new products coming out saying they make the rifles CA compliant, however we really need to see the product in action to make an official decision here.

In my opinion the BEST option on the market now is the Compmag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AykOHkCxsw

Here is the video, its 1:20 long shows you how to install and you don't have to change any features on the rifles.

[acespawnshop]

Not an FFL, but I'm pretty sure you can entirely avoid the CA AW laws by basically disconnecting the upper and lower entirely prior to shipping. No modifications necessary on your part. Don't need to do any compliance solutions, don't need to change out muzzle devices, grips, stocks, anything else. Wish companies like PSA would do this for the California market.

You can ship the upper to the customer and the receiver to the FFL also if you want. But again I'm going to say the COMPMAG is the best thing out there I've seen yet.

[edgerly779]

I put hammerhead grips that i ground finger grooves to make ergonomic.