Pistol Caliber Carbines

[FRF]

Anyone familiar with RONI-BI92? Legally. Looks good on paper. Unable to pin it down on flow charts. But this thing just does NOT pass common sense test. Thanks.

[adrenaline]

I really want one for my Glock 20 (10mm).



However, in the link...they explicitly state:

"Disclaimer : If you own a host pistol and install this product, your pistol will become a short-barreled rifle. You must first register your pistol with the ATFE using ATFE Form 1."

https://www.armsunlimited.com/CAA-RONI-G2-10-Glock-Pistol-to-Carbine-Stock-p/roni-g2-10.htm

[EBR Works]

If the model with a stock is utilized, it's an SBR federally and in CA as adrenaline noted:

https://www.israeldefensestore.com/roni-b92-7484.html

If the model with no stock is used, it likely makes your pistol an AW in CA due to the barrel shroud aspect of the design:

https://www.israeldefensestore.com/roni-recon-for-beretta-92-italy-made-7561.html

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/assault-weapons-in-california/

[FRF]

My first thread,will not be my last . Thanks to all responders, FRF is Feather River Firearms, Quincy, CA. I'm a 2-year FFL and CFD, I get confused about some products and do a lot a dancing. Many considerations for customers. I reckon this life would be much simpler in Arizona.
Looks like regarding the RONI, 65 yo individual with old (circa 1980) Beretta 92FS, the particular product is harmless. But when pistol is attached game changes. Also, not many PCCs for Beretta. Huge Glock thing.
Too bad, really. Old guy realizes his skills are deteriorating, loves his gun, and just wants to put rounds on target in a defensive situation.
I also have an email about this product submitted to my Dealer Advisor at DoJ in Sacramento. Will post their information.
R/ Steve Warner

[ugimports]

My first thread,will not be my last . Thanks to all responders, FRF is Feather River Firearms, Quincy, CA. I'm a 2-year FFL and CFD, I get confused about some products and do a lot a dancing. Many considerations for customers. I reckon this life would be much simpler in Arizona.
Looks like regarding the RONI, 65 yo individual with old (circa 1980) Beretta 92FS, the particular product is harmless. But when pistol is attached game changes. Also, not many PCCs for Beretta. Huge Glock thing.
Too bad, really. Old guy realizes his skills are deteriorating, loves his gun, and just wants to put rounds on target in a defensive situation.
I also have an email about this product submitted to my Dealer Advisor at DoJ in Sacramento. Will post their information.
R/ Steve Warner

Offhand I only know of CX4 and Sub-2000.

Yes Glocks are way more popular for PCC.

[FRF]

Just off phone with DoJ, BoF. No way. Figures, but still too bad. Will work with Geezer to find another solution to his issue. Thanks to all for assistance.

PS/ Don't know how I posted 3 msgs all same.

[ondago42]

If putting a Glock in a Roni turns it into an AW, does that mean you could register it as an AW if you purchased it prior to 2017?

[ugimports]

If putting a Glock in a Roni turns it into an AW, does that mean you could register it as an AW if you purchased it prior to 2017?

If it had a fixed magazine. Would also have to be the version with pistol brace unless you want to admit to having an SBR. It would end up in same category as AR/AK pistols.

[ShockBros]

Wouldn't the pistol brace one be good to go?
The barrel is already fully encircled by the slide?

[Quiet]

Wouldn't the pistol brace one be good to go?
The barrel is already fully encircled by the slide?

It also has a "second handgrip", which is a restricted feature on semi-auto pistols that do not have a fixed magazine.

A "second handgrip" is any surface/feature (can be angled, horizontal, and/or vertical) intended to be gripped by the non-shooting hand.

[ondago42]

If it had a fixed magazine. Would also have to be the version with pistol brace unless you want to admit to having an SBR. It would end up in same category as AR/AK pistols.

When you say fixed magazine, in this particular instance, you are referring to the original bullet button style similar to the set up on todays registered AR pistols, correct? So someone who had this set up with a pistol brace and owned the firearm prior to 2016 could adapt their Glock with some kind of bullet button set up and then register it as an AW and be good to go?

[ugimports]

When you say fixed magazine, in this particular instance, you are referring to the original bullet button style similar to the set up on todays registered AR pistols, correct? So someone who had this set up with a pistol brace and owned the firearm prior to 2016 could adapt their Glock with some kind of bullet button set up and then register it as an AW and be good to go?

Depends when it was built. The Roni with pistol brace looks like it was released in 2017-2018 which means it was impossible to have it configured that way (with that particular product) on 12/31/2016. Assuming they had a different product and had it setup with a 2016 compliant magazine lock on 12/31/2016 then it would be eligible to register.

However, being how CA DOJ has been if they see the Roni w/Pistol Brace in the pictures they may make the assumption that you manufactured that AW in 2017+... at least 1 person (in these forums: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1415817) we know of has been busted for sending in pictures of an illegal configuration.

As long as you're prepared to defend your self with lawyers have at it with the Roni+Pistol brace with a 2016 compliant magazine lock device.

If you have the original kit that you had your legal config on or before 12/31/2016 I would register with that one to eliminate any DOJ probing an knocking on your door.

[ondago42]

Depends when it was built. The Roni with pistol brace looks like it was released in 2017-2018 which means it was impossible to have it configured that way (with that particular product) on 12/31/2016. Assuming they had a different product and had it setup with a 2016 compliant magazine lock on 12/31/2016 then it would be eligible to register.

However, being how CA DOJ has been if they see the Roni w/Pistol Brace in the pictures they may make the assumption that you manufactured that AW in 2017+... at least 1 person (in these forums: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1415817) we know of has been busted for sending in pictures of an illegal configuration.

As long as you're prepared to defend your self with lawyers have at it with the Roni+Pistol brace with a 2016 compliant magazine lock device.

If you have the original kit that you had your legal config on or before 12/31/2016 I would register with that one to eliminate any DOJ probing an knocking on your door.

Thank you for all the helpful information. I have been considering a set up like this but definitely seem like too much liability and not worth it.

This does bring up another question. I know a ton of people who purchased lowers in 2016 thinking they would have a while to build them out before registration. Does that mean if they did not actually complete their build prior to the end of 2016, they are not technically able to register them?

[ugimports]

Thank you for all the helpful information. I have been considering a set up like this but definitely seem like too much liability and not worth it.

This does bring up another question. I know a ton of people who purchased lowers in 2016 thinking they would have a while to build them out before registration. Does that mean if they did not actually complete their build prior to the end of 2016, they are not technically able to register them?

That's what the PC says.... had to be a complete BB AW in your possession on or before 12/31/2016.

[Stanze]

It also has a "second handgrip", which is a restricted feature on semi-auto pistols that do not have a fixed magazine.

A "second handgrip" is any surface/feature (can be angled, horizontal, and/or vertical) intended to be gripped by the non-shooting hand.

Would a rail system on a Vector Arms UZI style pistol with standard mag release be CA legal? I thought it'd be technically and legally identical as any other pistol with a rail(s). In addition, would a installed arm brace on UZI or Mac-10-style pistol be CA legal?