FFL03/COE out of state ammo purchase

[condor]

I'm seeing a lot of different threads about public ammo sales, but even tho it may exist I can't find any info for the C&R folks. I'd like to know if ammo can be shipped directly to the 03 address from Out Of State vendors after supplying them with a copy of the 03, or are they still required to ship it to a FFL01?? OR do they ship as they have lately, and the onus is on us to abide by the new restrictions?? Being from another state, they could care less about Kalifornia, and it's crappy restrictions, and only need to abide by Fed laws . It's business as usual to anywhere else... Curious mind would like to know???

[ronlglock]

I'm seeing a lot of different threads about public ammo sales, but even tho it may exist I can't find any info for the C&R folks. I'd like to know if ammo can be shipped directly to the 03 address from Out Of State vendors after supplying them with a copy of the 03, or are they still required to ship it to a FFL01?? OR do they ship as they have lately, and the onus is on us to abide by the new restrictions?? Being from another state, they could care less about Kalifornia, and it's crappy restrictions, and only need to abide by Fed laws . It's business as usual to anywhere else... Curious mind would like to know???

Dead this horse is. Please see this thread.

And here is the actual law:

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=30312

[condor]

Ok, so what I'm reading in your answer is it's business as usual for out of state vendors, and they don't even need proof of the buyer being a FFL03 to ship the ammo since the law is Kalifornian, and they aren't restricted by it..., and as a C&R neither are we... Thank's for the info.

Just a thought.. Can you imagine the load the state is going to have trying to police ammo sales?? They don't have to budget to handle what their doing now....

[SkyHawk]

Ok, so what I'm reading in your answer is it's business as usual for out of state vendors, and they don't even need proof of the buyer being a FFL03 to ship the ammo since the law is Kalifornian, and they aren't restricted by it..., and as a C&R neither are we... Thank's for the info.

I don't know of any ammo vendor who will ship ammo to or within CA without proof of 03FFL + COE.

Even out of state vendors have to observe CA laws if they ship to CA. Just look at what happened with Exile Machine and mag rebuild kits.

These vendors have modified their checkout system so you can upload the documents they need.

[condor]

I don't know of any ammo vendor who will ship ammo to or within CA without proof of 03FFL + COE.

Even out of state vendors have to observe CA laws if they ship to CA. Just look at what happened with Exile Machine and mag rebuild kits.

These vendors have modified their checkout system so you can upload the documents they need.

[TRICKSTER]

So exactly how is the ammo vendor suppose to know if you have a 03FFL + COE if you don't show them a copy?

As far as there being nothing in the law that "sez" that you have to send them anything, they are a private business and they don't have to sell you anything either. Their business, their rules.

[MARKFP]

Good luck trying to find vender without proper paper work being received on their end, you may play a trick on the wording but they won't, THEY have to comply to regs for shipping in.

[condor]

So exactly how is the ammo vendor suppose to know if you have a 03FFL + COE if you don't show them a copy?

As far as there being nothing in the law that "sez" that you have to send them anything, they are a private business and they don't have to sell you anything either. Their business, their rules.

They don't and by their state and fed laws they don't need to. I said it before and I'll say it again. The burden of proof lies with the California FFL3, not the other 49 states...

Good luck trying to find vender without proper paper work being received on their end, you may play a trick on the wording but they won't, THEY have to comply to regs for shipping in.

Let me see if I can put this in a way that you will understand.

You're right they are a private business and they can make their own rules, just don't be a baker and refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding...

However there isn't a law in their state that says they need to require a FFL3/COE from any state. They can sell ammo to anyone as long as the buyer is eligible according to FED law. i.e. age, background, etc

It's a California exemption that allows us to by-pass the restrictions required by a private party.

Further more I'm not trying to play word tricks. It is what it is. It's called reading comprehension....

Now think about this. Keeping tract of all ammo sales and amounts is going to be a friggen nightmare. Right now none of the FFL dealers know what's expected of them and it's a cluster ****. Add to that ammo coming into the state thru FFL3/COE's for their personal use, and they won't know which way is up. I don't see this thing lasting, and I wish the folks running around with their hands out looking for donations would file something sooner rather than later.

[SkyHawk]

They don't and by their state and fed laws they don't need to. I said it before and I'll say it again. The burden of proof lies with the California FFL3, not the other 49 states...



Let me see if I can put this in a way that you will understand.

You're right they are a private business and they can make their own rules, just don't be a baker and refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding...

However there isn't a law in their state that says they need to require a FFL3/COE from any state. They can sell ammo to anyone as long as the buyer is eligible according to FED law. i.e. age, background, etc

It's a California exemption that allows us to by-pass the restrictions required by a private party.

Further more I'm not trying to play word tricks. It is what it is. It's called reading comprehension....

Now think about this. Keeping tract of all ammo sales and amounts is going to be a friggen nightmare. Right now none of the FFL dealers know what's expected of them and it's a cluster ****. Add to that ammo coming into the state thru FFL3/COE's for their personal use, and they won't know which way is up. I don't see this thing lasting, and I wish the folks running around with their hands out looking for donations would file something sooner rather than later.

This is what happens when they do not observe CA laws when shipping here, no matter how dumb the law:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=13011144&postcount=1

And they were still suing people in 2017

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/03/09/online-accessory-retailer-sued-san-francisco-help-support/

http://www.sfexaminer.com/sf-sues-gun-suppliers-illegally-selling-high-ammo-repair-kits/

So yes, they can do it, and then they get sued by some liberal city attorney.

[acespawnshop]

When you get your FFL and you agreed to follow all state and local laws as condition of having your FFL.

[condor]

When you get your FFL and you agreed to follow all state and local laws as condition of having your FFL.

Thanks for that...but when it says 'state' is that refering to the state of the FFL01's DBA or every state in the US?? Does it have that stipulation for a FFL03 as well?? I donno..just asking.

BTW my first post was asking about a direct shipment by a vendor of personal use ammo to my FFL03 address... The answer is yes.. The rest of this thread is just discussion...

[ugimports]

Thanks for that...but when it says 'state' is that refering to the state of the FFL01's DBA or every state in the US?? Does it have that stipulation for a FFL03 as well?? I donno..just asking.

BTW my first post was asking about a direct shipment by a vendor of personal use ammo to my FFL03 address... The answer is yes.. The rest of this thread is just discussion...

Yes, on the application you signed when you applied:



Notice they have the catch-all "other law" to basically say you can't break ANY law.

[condor]

Yes, on the application you signed when you applied:



Notice they have the catch-all "other law" to basically say you can't break ANY law.

Thanks again for the info and your images, and I can understand where you're coming from.... but I think the kicker here is in the second image.
where it refers to contacting 'your' state or 'local' authorities. Not other states...

In my opinion following all laws from every state could be very dangerous by having individual state laws apply to every state. I'd hate to think about turning California loose on the rest of the US.....!!!!!

[rcjunky3]

so heres a problem i am running into with a few vendors and maybe somebody can enlighten me or maybe help with the actual law so i can try and offer some guidance to the ammo vendors that i have dealt with in the past 2 days. Palmetto national sale supervisor John Legare said no they will not accept a class 3 or COE because the law does not specify the limitations on how much they could or could not send me. Natchezs/Chattanooga supply doesnt know anything about the Class 3 being able to receive for personnel and want a tax id number for resale, same thing with Midway. John at Palmetto at least is willing to try and get it squared away to be able to sell to any of us he just asked ny help on providing him the law that says anything about limitations

[PatC415]

so heres a problem i am running into with a few vendors and maybe somebody can enlighten me or maybe help with the actual law so i can try and offer some guidance to the ammo vendors that i have dealt with in the past 2 days. Palmetto national sale supervisor John Legare said no they will not accept a class 3 or COE because the law does not specify the limitations on how much they could or could not send me. Natchezs/Chattanooga supply doesnt know anything about the Class 3 being able to receive for personnel and want a tax id number for resale, same thing with Midway. John at Palmetto at least is willing to try and get it squared away to be able to sell to any of us he just asked ny help on providing him the law that says anything about limitations

There aren't any "limilations" that I'm aware of OP. Post #2 is the exemption, no?
I'm sure many of the Vendors are airing on the side of caution...unwarranted as it may seem.