01...03 again

[Tyke8319]

I know the subject of 01 and 03 FFl's has been beat to a fair-thee-well but a question came up yesterday...

Does an 01 have to have an 03 license, as well, to collect C&R's???

I couldn't find anything that spoke to that question in prior discussions.

[Tyke8319]

More to the point, would a standard Long Gun DROS be completed by the dealer wishing to acquire a C&R or the Curio & Relic DROS if the 01 dealer did not possess an 03 FFL?

[acespawnshop]

Ignorant on the subject but I would suspect in CA it wouldn't matter if you had an 03 license if you have an 01. However, having that 03 and COE would exempt the licensee from the 10 day wait and 1 in 30 on the C&R stuff. I doubt ATF would care to issue two licenses at the same address.

[Tyke8319]

Pragmatically, I would agree. However, as best I can determine, neither ATF nor DOJ addresses that situation directly. One is left wondering when an ATF/DOJ shoe would fall if a wrong application of forms was used.

I figured with all the attention the 03 subject has fostered, the CalGuns prophets would be all over this question.

[acespawnshop]

I remember reading in the C&R publication by ATF the sole reason for the 03 license is to be a collector. And the reason for having an 01 licensee is to be engaged in the business of selling firearms. Since the two are not interchangeable I would say maybe you're right and one would need both. Again most ignorant person on the subject of 03 licensees. I know little.

[Tyke8319]

Same here..

[ugimports]

I think it depends how you do the transaction. I have both. If I get a C&R rifle/pistol I log it out and do the paperwork from my 01 -> 03. If it's a modern firearm it just goes through the 01 and I use CFD exemption for 10 day wait/1-30 exemption.

If you were just collecting C&Rs like anyone without a C&R license then you don't need it. It was just be "retail" transactions to yourself the same as you collecting modern day glocks..

The only reason I keep my C&R is that I had it pre-dealer times and it's cheap to renew... I don't want to have to re-fill out the apps at a later date if/when I stop becoming a dealer.

It obviously has side benefits in the future that my C&R+COE will allow me to purchase bulk ammo online direct vs having to proxy through my business.

[Tyke8319]

Some good points.
In looking over the C&R DROS, it asks for a CFD number but nowhere implies a C&R type FFL.
I understand that's a Fed. reg. In reading over the limitations of a C&R FFL they appear to have some of the same limitations but fewer requirements that are placed on the 01 FFL....If all that makes sense.
In other words, the 03 FFL License is necessarily included within the 01 FFL License but th3 03 carries with it fewer requirement that the 01 FFL must adhere to.
If that premise is true, that an 01 does not need an 03 to acquire C&R's for his/her personal collection...
At least that's my theory.

[ugimports]

If that premise is true, that an 01 does not need an 03 to acquire C&R's for his/her personal collection...

This s correct... you don't NEED an 03... it's optional..however, what this means is that you are liable for sales tax from out of state 03 to personal firearms.

Whereas if you had an 03 you would be doing an out of state 03 to your 03 which is tax free...depending what version of BOE response you've received in the past..

There are some personal tax implications although depending on your volume may not be worth the trouble..

ETA:
Also depending on your FFL structure it may or may not negate the need for 4473s.. No FFL03 means you may still be doing 4473s for C&R firearms to personal collection (unless sole proprietor, etc..).

[Tyke8319]

This s correct... you don't NEED an 03... it's optional..however, what this means is that you are liable for sales tax from out of state 03 to personal firearms.

Whereas if you had an 03 you would be doing an out of state 03 to your 03 which is tax free...depending what version of BOE response you've received in the past..

There are some personal tax implications although depending on your volume may not be worth the trouble..

ETA:
Also depending on your FFL structure it may or may not negate the need for 4473s.. No FFL03 means you may still be doing 4473s for C&R firearms to personal collection (unless sole proprietor, etc..).

Some very good points...Thanks for you input.