Processing PPT from Exempt to Non-Exempt

[Chewy65]

A question came up about PC 32000 and sales by a LEO of off roster handguns. If a licensee is prohibited from transferring an "unsafe" handgun obtained using a LEO exemption to a non exempt person, how does an FFL know that it was originally purchased with an exemption? It is possible that the LEO got it in a PPT or as a IntraFamiliar transfer isn't it?

[Quiet]

AFAIK...
It is determined during the 10 day wait by CA DOJ.

Because AFS is a historically database, if the off-Roster handgun was acquired via LEO exemption it will be indicated in that handgun's record along with the info of everyone who owned/transferred that handgun.

[BONECUTTER]

LEO's who used to be able to buy off Roster can still sell them.
AB2165 added new LEO types who can't.

SECTION 1. Section 32000 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

32000. (a)A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for saleSubject to the limitations set forth in subdivision (c), the sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, any of the following entities or sworn members of these entities shall not process the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun between a person who has obtained an unsafe handgun pursuant to an exemption specified in paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) and a person who is not exempt from the requirements of this section.

So newly added types can only sell to newly added types.
There is no way the DOJ can check this during the 10 day wait as the exemption option is still just peace officer. There is no other option to select for the newly added versions.

Other then the dealer requesting a copy of the previous DROS and if done as a Law Enforcement exempt transaction asked to see the peace officer ID there is no way for the dealer to tell.

It's the LEO doing it who's really gambling.

[rbetts]

So to be clear, LEO's cannot PPT off roster handguns to civilians anymore

[BONECUTTER]

So to be clear, LEO's cannot PPT off roster handguns to civilians anymore

[kemasa]

So to be clear, LEO's cannot PPT off roster handguns to civilians anymore

No, only the newly added exempt can't, the others still can.

One problem is that if two people come to you to do a CA PPT, how exactly do you know that the seller is a LEO and whether they fall into the category which either allows them to sell it or does not allow them to sell it? Remember, the person could have received the firearm by various means, such as moving to CA, interstate intrafamilial transfer, buying it originally from a person who moved to CA, etc.

It is possible that the firearm was illegally brought into CA as well.

Unless you know, you don't know. Is it really up to the FFL to investigate the history of the firearm?

[Junkie]

The problem is that it states that the FFL can't do the transfer. That makes it sound like the FFL will have problems if they do, maybe even if they do in good faith (if someone lies for example).

[rbetts]

So those that can are :

CHP
City Police Departments
County Sheriff Departments
Department of Correction Officers
Federal Sworn Peace Officers (FBI, Marshall, Flight Officer)

[taperxz]

No, only the newly added exempt can't, the others still can.

One problem is that if two people come to you to do a CA PPT, how exactly do you know that the seller is a LEO and whether they fall into the category which either allows them to sell it or does not allow them to sell it? Remember, the person could have received the firearm by various means, such as moving to CA, interstate intrafamilial transfer, buying it originally from a person who moved to CA, etc.

It is possible that the firearm was illegally brought into CA as well.

Unless you know, you don't know. Is it really up to the FFL to investigate the history of the firearm?

Perhaps not. A background check on the firearm is performed on serial numbers. I would think that the exemption to sell to the newly classified would show that in the DROS.

The exempt buyer would be FSC exempt so showing a status as a LEO of some sort, as an LEO their name would be in a data base showing they are some type of LEO and the law would only allow newly purchased off roster guns as part of the the new Penal code.

This all seems like a hassle but, DOJ could track that gun purchased to the newly exempted LEO's and then deny the purchase during the 10 day wait to someone they can't sell that gun to.

They could also decipher if the gun was bought under the new law or if it was obtained through other means like a previous PPT or other means like brought in from out of state ect.

[BONECUTTER]

Perhaps not. A background check on the firearm is performed on serial numbers. I would think that the exemption to sell to the newly classified would show that in the DROS.

The exempt buyer would be FSC exempt so showing a status as a LEO of some sort, as an LEO their name would be in a data base showing they are some type of LEO and the law would only allow newly purchased off roster guns as part of the the new Penal code.

This all seems like a hassle but, DOJ could track that gun purchased to the newly exempted LEO's and then deny the purchase during the 10 day wait to someone they can't sell that gun to.

They could also decipher if the gun was bought under the new law or if it was obtained through other means like a previous PPT or other means like brought in from out of state ect.

Theses no way the DOJ has access to check what agency/dept a LEO works for. The DROS exemption is just going to say CA Law Enforcement for all of them.

Think this law was to shut up other Agencies who cried "were police too":

Cool you can buy but not sell. And if you do we can charge you with this crime......

[kemasa]

The problem is that it states that the FFL can't do the transfer. That makes it sound like the FFL will have problems if they do, maybe even if they do in good faith (if someone lies for example).

Yes, that is a major problem as it seems to indicate that a FFL has to be an investigator without the ability to determine it and if they refuse to do the CA PPT, then they can have problems as well. Not sure that it would hold up in court, but it would be expensive to find out. As well, the CA DOJ does not know whether it applies or not.

[kemasa]

So those that can are :

CHP
City Police Departments
County Sheriff Departments
Department of Correction Officers
Federal Sworn Peace Officers (FBI, Marshall, Flight Officer)

Well, it is not that easy since there are many ways the person could have acquired it.

Remember the law states what you can't do, not what you can.

These people can't IF they acquired it using the exemption, but not if they acquired it by other means:

[kemasa]

Perhaps not. A background check on the firearm is performed on serial numbers. I would think that the exemption to sell to the newly classified would show that in the DROS.

Except the CA DOJ does not know exactly how they were exempt, just that a LEO exemption was used and the FFL has NO means of knowing how the person received the firearm unless they play investigator.

The exempt buyer would be FSC exempt so showing a status as a LEO of some sort, as an LEO their name would be in a data base showing they are some type of LEO and the law would only allow newly purchased off roster guns as part of the the new Penal code.

If that is how they acquired it, but some LEOs can still sell them.

This all seems like a hassle but, DOJ could track that gun purchased to the newly exempted LEO's and then deny the purchase during the 10 day wait to someone they can't sell that gun to.

But the CA DOJ would have to investigate the type of LEO the person is, which I don't know that they have access to that information unless there is a database of LEOs. Some LEOs can buy and sell and others can not, but the FFL does not know how the person got the firearm and whether an exemption was used.

They could also decipher if the gun was bought under the new law or if it was obtained through other means like a previous PPT or other means like brought in from out of state ect.

Yes, they would know if it was acquired by other means, but would they tell the FFL of that?

[kemasa]

Cool you can buy but not sell. And if you do we can charge you with this crime......

Who can they charge? The FFL or the LEO?

The law says that the FFL can't process it:

(c) (1) Notwithstanding Section 26825, a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, shall not process the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun between a person who has obtained an unsafe handgun pursuant to an exemption specified in paragraph (6) of subdivision (b) and a person who is not exempt from the requirements of this section.

Not that the LEO can't sell it. The FFL does not have a means of knowing.

[BONECUTTER]

The law says that the FFL can't process it:

Not that the LEO can't sell it. The FFL does not have a means of knowing.

So, is that an easy way for FFL's to not process any off rosters PPT?

"To ensure compliance with PC 32000 (C)(1) we will not be able to process private party transfers of non-roster handguns without proof that said firearm was not acquired via PC 32000 (B)(6)"