Yet Another PPT Thread

[Quiet]

To be more accurate, you should have said "at least three definitions". Just because the CA PC says something does not mean that the CA DOJ doesn't have another definition that they use in order to go after people. There are numerous laws which say one thing, but the CA DOJ says yet another.

copy that, edited above post

[taperxz]

A FFL doesn't have to log a PPT firearm into his bound book. If you ship it to an FFL for delivery he has to treat it differently. He takes possession of the gun logs it into his book. The buyer shows up and he does a DROS for $25 (he doesn't get the $10 state fee). Of course he does charge you $25-150 for his services - receiving the gun, logging into his book, calling the buyer, doing the DROS, logging the disposition of the gun into his bound book.

An FFL Abosolutely must log a PPT into the book. We are holding it for 10 to possibly 30 days.

[kemasa]

A FFL doesn't have to log a PPT firearm into his bound book.

I hope you are not a FFL, at least not in CA.

In a free state where there is no waiting period and the background check comes back approved or the person is exempt, then the FFL does not have to log it (which I think is foolish). If the background check is delayed and the FFL holds the firearm, it has to be logged.

[taperxz]

I hope you are not a FFL, at least not in CA.

In a free state where there is no waiting period and the background check comes back approved or the person is exempt, then the FFL does not have to log it (which I think is foolish). If the background check is delayed and the FFL holds the firearm, it has to be logged.

In a truly "free state" the use of an FFL is not needed for a private transfer.

[kemasa]

In a truly "free state" the use of an FFL is not needed for a private transfer.

Not required, but it can be done if the seller wants to ensure that the buyer is not a prohibited person.

[Junkie]

CA has at least three defintions of "antique firearm". [PC 16170]

Which definition is used, depends on which CA laws is being referenced.

As applied to CA assault weapons laws, "antique firearm" means any firearm made before 01-01-1899. [PC 16170(a)]

As applied to CA generally prohibited weapons (DD, MG, SBR, SBS, etc) laws, "antique firearm" is a firearm that does not use fixed ammunition that was made before 1899 (includes replicas of those firearms made after 1898) and a firearm that was made before 1899 that uses fixed ammunition that is not commercially available. [PC 16170(c)]

As applied CA firearm transfer laws and CA unloaded open carry laws, "antique firearm" means the same as Federal laws. [PC 16170(b)]




Penal Code 16170

So for AW, breech loader, manufacture date is all that matters.

For NFA-ish, even if the feds consider it antique it may not be in the state eyes (for example, a short barreled Winchester 1873 in 44-40).

Speaking of NFA stuff, for non-AW firearms that the feds specifically exempt from NFA (I know some trapper model 1899+ lever actions have <16" barrels but the feds say aren't SBR), does the state see them as SBR?


I'm still curious as to whether there have been firearms that became antique, and then ammo production started again, and then became non-antique. I suspect it has happened at some point, but who knkows.

[taperxz]

Not required, but it can be done if the seller wants to ensure that the buyer is not a prohibited person.

Didn't Nevada's new law get shot down because the NICS folks said they were not going to run the data base for PPT's?

I thought it was something like this but not sure.

[kemasa]

Didn't Nevada's new law get shot down because the NICS folks said they were not going to run the data base for PPT's?

I thought it was something like this but not sure.

It was a different issue. The law required the FFL to directly contact the NICS to do the background check, BUT in Nevada background checks are run by the State Department of Public Safety and that charges a fee. The law tried to bypass the normal background check process and the FBI said no.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/12080/nevada-ag-rules-nevadans-can-ignore-gun-control-hank-berrien

A FFL can conduct a PPT, but it has to be done basically the same as a dealer transfer. There are some differences as documented in the BATF letter which details how the FFL is to process it, such as not having to log the firearm in unless they retain it. Personally, I log in any firearm which goes through my business.

[Quiet]

For NFA-ish, even if the feds consider it antique it may not be in the state eyes (for example, a short barreled Winchester 1873 in 44-40).

Speaking of NFA stuff, for non-AW firearms that the feds specifically exempt from NFA (I know some trapper model 1899+ lever actions have <16" barrels but the feds say aren't SBR), does the state see them as SBR?

CA laws exempts BATFE exempted C&R firearms from CA generally prohibited weapons (SBR/SBS) laws. [PC 17705(a)]

So, if the BATFE removed a C&R lever-action rifle from the NFA registry then it is also exempt from CA SBR laws.