03FFL and COE

[FCOD]

Good morning,

I had an 03 FFL back in the day before a COE was required in California, but never ended up renewing it and just let it lapse. Since rebuilding my C&R collection, I've become interested in re obtaining my 03 and getting a COE so that I can have older firearms shipped to me once again.

I have the link below and it looks like I just have to submit that form and get fingerprints taken. For some reason, before I thought that I had to get something signed off by my County CLEO and have him approve it much like a CCW, but I must've been mistaken?

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

What's the turnaround on the COE generally?

Does having an 03 open me up to ATF being able to come inspect my safe, or is it just the bound book inspection if they ask?

Thanks everyone!

[SkyHawk]

No notification to or sign off from LE to get a COE. Turnaround 30 - 90 days.

ATF can not come unannounced to your home for inspection just because you have 03FFL, can only request to see your book and that can be done offsite.

[FCOD]

Thanks for the info.

03 + COE doesn't have any impact on handguns right? Those even if older still have to be DROS'd?

[SkyHawk]

Thanks for the info.

03 + COE doesn't have any impact on handguns right? Those even if older still have to be DROS'd?

Have to be DROSed if acquired in state or shipped into state. But even without a COE, you can still leave the state and personally bring back C&R handguns with no DROS, and report within 5 days.

[kemasa]

...
I've become interested in re obtaining my 03 and getting a COE so that I can have older firearms shipped to me once again.

You might want to check into the laws since firearms can not be shipped directly to you, although some disagree (and refuse to explain how they are exempt from the CA PC), but it does allow you to be exempt from the waiting period for C&R firearms.

See CA PC 27585 and 27565

27585.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into
this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm
that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015,
from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to
a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures
set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and
Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(1) A licensed collector who is subject to and complies with Section 27565.
...

27565.

(a) This section applies in the following circumstances:

(1) A person is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with
Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued
pursuant thereto.

(2) The licensed premises of that person are within this state.

(3) The licensed collector acquires, outside of this state, a handgun, and
commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm.

(4) The licensed collector takes actual possession of that firearm outside of
this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title
18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports
the firearm into this state.

(5) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27
of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Within five days of transporting a firearm into this state under the
circumstances described in subdivision (a), the licensed collector shall report
the acquisition of that firearm to the department in a format prescribed by the
department.
(Amended by Stats. 2011, Ch. 745, Sec. 28. Effective January 1, 2012.)

[ugimports]

No notification to or sign off from LE to get a COE. Turnaround 30 - 90 days.

ATF can not come unannounced to your home for inspection just because you have 03FFL, can only request to see your book and that can be done offsite.

During my ATF audit (dealer) the agent told me that they can request to see your bound book + inventory to make sure they match. Is this no longer the case and they can only see your 03 bound book?

[SkyHawk]

During my ATF audit (dealer) the agent told me that they can request to see your bound book + inventory to make sure they match. Is this no longer the case and they can only see your 03 bound book?

I have no idea, I guess they could request to see inventory but it does not have to be done at your house? The rules are slightly different for 03 vs 01 FFL. I have not looked at the regs, maybe someone will come along with a citation or more info.

[ugimports]

I have no idea, I guess they could request to see inventory but it does not have to be done at your house? The rules are slightly different for 03 vs 01 FFL. I have not looked at the regs, maybe someone will come along with a citation or more info.

Does not need to be done at your house, but if you have a large collection it might be easier for the 03 holder .. Truthfully, if there is something they are "after" you for they'll just get a warrant. If you have a large collection it's probably easier to do it at your house, but I understand some people don't like govt folks inside their homes.

[six seven tango]

Thanks for the info.

03 + COE doesn't have any impact on handguns right? Those even if older still have to be DROS'd?

Have to be DROSed if acquired in state or shipped into state. But even without a COE, you can still leave the state and personally bring back C&R handguns with no DROS, and report within 5 days.

Having 03 + COE also exempts you from the 10 day wait on all C&R firearms thru a dealer, and the 1 in 30 handgun restriction (C&R only) from dealer stock.

Having an 03 + COE will also exempt you from the new upcoming ammo laws.

[FCOD]

Kemasa,

I thought the whole purpose of getting a COE was that it allowed C&R eligible firearms to be shipped directly to you. Clearly I misunderstood that. Thanks for posting the text.

[weaselfire]

ATF doesn't have time or staff to audit 03 licensees and will not call unless they are actively tracing a firearm and believe you might have information. Same as following a regular trace and you did a 4473.

But, from all the legal reading I've done, in California the 03 doesn't allow direct shipments. Federal, yes. State, no.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[ugimports]

ATF doesn't have time or staff to audit 03 licensees and will not call unless they are actively tracing a firearm and believe you might have information. Same as following a regular trace and you did a 4473.

But, from all the legal reading I've done, in California the 03 doesn't allow direct shipments. Federal, yes. State, no.

Jeff

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

My 03 hasn't been audited in 10 years. Also, the auditor that was doing our shop would be the same auditor that does 03s (not a different set of employees).. Given that they are trying to keep up with all the non 03 FFLs I'd have to believe the bolded above is true.

[Psychbiker]

So 60-90 days for a COE. What would be the time frame for an 03 FFL?

Wonder what would happen if they noticed monthly orders of ammo in the 1-3k rd range. Like the idea of getting an 03 to purchase ammo but also don't need to open myself for possible trouble by ordering a lot.

[TRICKSTER]

So 60-90 days for a COE. What would be the time frame for an 03 FFL?

Wonder what would happen if they noticed monthly orders of ammo in the 1-3k rd range. Like the idea of getting an 03 to purchase ammo but also don't need to open myself for possible trouble by ordering a lot.

Who is going to notice, how are they going to notice and why should ordering ammo by the case get one in trouble? It really isn't all that uncommon.

[ugimports]

So 60-90 days for a COE. What would be the time frame for an 03 FFL?

Wonder what would happen if they noticed monthly orders of ammo in the 1-3k rd range. Like the idea of getting an 03 to purchase ammo but also don't need to open myself for possible trouble by ordering a lot.

Who is "they"?