Springfield 1911 problems

[OCArmory]

Lately we have had several 1911s from Springfield come with the sticker that says "Not on CA DOJ Roster." After dealing with people telling me I am wrong and don't know what I am talking about I finally got an email from Springfield.

I am sorry to hear you are having an issue with the model numbers of your Springfield 1911 models. As of January 1, 2016 we removed the ILS system out of our 1911 models. Under CA law any changes to a firearms automatically makes it no longer legal for sale in your state. So to be able to continue to see Springfield 1911 models we decided to continue with the ILS system on models shipping to CA. Therefore all 1911 models that still have the ILS system and are CA legal we have added CA to the end of the part number. Example: PC9105LCA, PB9108LCA, PX9109LCA (not legal PC9105L, PB9108L, PX9109L). In order to receive CA legal models you must order the part number you are in need of with CA on the end. It is my understanding that you would still run the part number for the DROS with just the L on the end, as CA only stands for legal in CA, no change to the firearm. I hope this helps. If you have any questions please give me a call.

Have a great day!
Dawn W
Range Program Coordinator/
Dealer Assistance & Response Team Supervisor
Springfield Armory
800-617-6638

Passing this along for info for all the dealers as getting cited in an audit because you DROS'ed an off roster handgun would suck.

[Addax]

Thank you!

[acespawnshop]

We had this discussion with Bud's when they dropped their CA stuff. Thanks for sharing. This is insightful.

[kemasa]

Well, my opinion is that if that is the case then Springfield should either change the model numbers or contact the CA DOJ and get the listed model numbers changed (if that is even possible). The CA models are not on the certified list, the others are.

They made a change which makes it no longer the same model. What they are doing means that you can have two firearms, made at different points in time, which are different.

[OCArmory]

Or the opposite is true that you can't have either. Since the CA model is not listed specifically and the current model is not as tested for the roster.

[kemasa]

Or the opposite is true that you can't have either. Since the CA model is not listed specifically and the current model is not as tested for the roster.

But what is on the certified list and in the DES can be transferred.

[OCArmory]

Not if the configuration has been changed from as tested.

[kemasa]

Not if the configuration has been changed from as tested.

Which is impossible to know, isn't it?

Look at this example. They are saying that an older version model without the CA is on the list and a newer version is not unless it has the CA. How do you know which is which? Do they have a means of checking the serial number to know which one is which? In the past, they put the stupid sticker on the case if it had so-called high capacity magazines, but the firearm was on the list.

Now make it even worse, it is a used firearm and there is no case/box with the firearm. How do you know whether it is on the list or not? Do they engrave the model number, including the CA, on the firearm so that you know? Can you call them to check?

Then think of ANY firearm in which you believe it is on the list, how do you really know that there wasn't a change which makes it no longer on the list? How do you know a used firearm has not been modified so that it is no longer on the list? Even a firearm which appears new could have been modified, either by someone else or the manufacturer. Remember the firearm that was yanked off the list and DROS which were submitted were cancelled?

The only way to be sure is to assume that nothing is on the list, how will that work for you? :-)

[OCArmory]

It is possible to know. The lack of ILS is very visible. Springfield does tell you by putting a big sticker on the box. How about you find someone elses' post to spew your crap. I posted a response from Springfield to help other FFL's you can very clearly see the new 1911s are missing the ILS. If you want to break the law that is fine but don't post in my threads unless you have something productive to add.

[ElvenSoul]

One of these threads needs to be sticky!

Forsee a lot of problems over this.

Why did they not add a letter to end if the serial number? Usually what is done with a change like this!

[ugimports]

An add to the serial number wouldn't help. When ordering from a distributor I am ordering off mfg# not serial number. As OCArmory mentioned the lack of an ILS is pretty easy to see looking at the grip. I usually look for that when there's no lock in the box so I can document that as the OEM lock coming with the firearm. Now I know we need to look at it for the CA legal versions of some of them.

[ElvenSoul]

An add to the serial number wouldn't help. When ordering from a distributor I am ordering off mfg# not serial number. As OCArmory mentioned the lack of an ILS is pretty easy to see looking at the grip. I usually look for that when there's no lock in the box so I can document that as the OEM lock coming with the firearm. Now I know we need to look at it for the CA legal versions of some of them.

My bad model number

[kemasa]

It is possible to know. The lack of ILS is very visible. Springfield does tell you by putting a big sticker on the box. How about you find someone elses' post to spew your crap. I posted a response from Springfield to help other FFL's you can very clearly see the new 1911s are missing the ILS. If you want to break the law that is fine but don't post in my threads unless you have something productive to add.

No, it is not always possible to know. In the case if the ILS, you might know, but first you have to know to look for it and what it means. Do you really think that EVERY FFL knows that based on the model number whether it is supposed to have the ILS or not? It is not listed on the certified list.

Springfield has put that sticker on the box when it is bogus because of the magazines.

How about you think about what I am saying instead of getting all bent out of shape. I don't think you are listening and thinking about it. Do you really think that a FFL should just assume that a firearm is actually on the CA certified list because a model name is listed there without the "CA", but have a firearm that has had the "CA" added to the model name? Perhaps you don't recall the issue with the Sig ESE, first it was the model with so-called high capacity magazines and not the model that had the 10 round magazine, then later it was the standard version, not the CA version and the two firearms were different. How exactly is a FFL supposed to know whether there is a CA version or not and what it is? This is especially bad when changes are made and the model name does not.

Your response from Springfield is helpful, but it shows a real problem with both Springfield and the certified list, but you don't seem to be able to get that. Springfield made a change to the firearm and kept the same model name. They then created a new model name with the CA added which is the name as older versions of the firearm with the old model name. And you don't think that is a problem????

I don't want to break the law which is why I am saying what I am.

[dvs762]

whats worse is I have received a few SA 1911 pistols with the NOT ON CA ROSTER stickers..but they had the ILS and correct SKUs...and DOJ does know about the ILS issue..

[acespawnshop]

We just had an extensive dialogue between us and good customer of ours regarding this same thing. He's on calguns and we had a back and forth via email about this. Confusing for sure. Roster has to go.