Sent gun in the mail, FFL says i'm breaking the law

[wireless]

I sent a featureless rifle to a FFL in santa barbara. I am located in Los Angeles and sent it via USPS. This FFL is telling me I broke the law because I did not first give it to another FFL to ship. I provided them a copy of my driver's license and a bill of sale. He said he's going to contact the CA-DOJ and get back to me. Now, I've sent at least two dozen guns in the mail and never required me to give it to a FFL first. I have received firearm receivers from individuals, via the mail, to my local FFL. He says he's been doing this for 37 years but I believe he is misinformed.

Is there something I am doing illegal, but I'm 99.9% sure I'm fine and he's wrong. If anyone has a copy of CA-DOJ regulations, because I can't seem to find them, that would be very helpful and I can forward it to him.

This is the only one I can find:

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs

Q&A #2

[BAJ475]

I sent a featureless rifle to a FFL in santa barbara. I am located in Los Angeles and sent it via USPS. This FFL is telling me I broke the law because I did not first give it to another FFL to ship. I provided them a copy of my driver's license and a bill of sale. He said he's going to contact the CA-DOJ and get back to me. Now, I've sent at least two dozen guns in the mail and never required me to give it to a FFL first. I have received firearm receivers from individuals, via the mail, to my local FFL. He says he's been doing this for 37 years but I believe he is misinformed.

Is there something I am doing illegal, but I'm 99.9% sure I'm fine and he's wrong. If anyone has a copy of CA-DOJ regulations, because I can't seem to find them, that would be very helpful and I can forward it to him.

It has nothing to do with CA-DOJ regulations but federal law. From the AFT website. "A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]
But note, CA law does not allow PPT of firearms except through a FFL.

[wireless]

It has nothing to do with CA-DOJ regulations but federal law. From the AFT website. "A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]
But note, CA law does not allow PPT of firearms except through a FFL.

Yup, that's what I thought, but he's citing CA law which seems to not exist. And the gun would be treated as if it was a new firearm, subject to sales tax and dealer fees, not as a PPT.

[vintagearms]

Who is the FFL??

[wireless]

Guns of Santa Barbara. I talked to the owner and he hadn't heard of this before, but he was respectful and polite. Their customer service is fine, I just think he's misinformed. My concern is he won't take it anyways and it'll go back to a FFL that I'll have to transfer it through all over again and pay the fees. I'm pretty sure he can just send it back to me since the gun did not leave the state and it belongs to me, but I'm not sure what will happen.

[canid]

Conversion od property?

[wireless]

Huh?

[Librarian]

There is no law, CA or Federal, that requires an FFL to be the shipper.

There are reasons one might hire an FFL to ship on your behalf, but they are for either the shipper's convenience or to humor a particualr FFL's preference.

Rifles are mailable via USPS; handguns are mailable IF the mailer is an FFL.

Moved to FFL forum.

[wireless]

Exactly what I thought. Well we will see what happens.

[Cody805]

Prett sure your going to the big house but what do I know....

[canid]

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/conversion-claims-in-california.html

This is not a recommendation of legal action; I'm not a lawyer and do not play one on the internet. I'm just curious whether this constitutes, as it seems it may, a case of conversion should the FFL in question refuse to return it to you in lieu of another FFL.

[SkyHawk]

Jeeeeeezus, not again.

Straight from the ATF:

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download

6. May I lawfully ship a firearm directly to an out-of-State licensee, or must I have a
licensee in my State ship it to him? May the licensee return the firearm to me, even if
the shipment is across State lines?

Any person may ship firearms directly to a licensee in any State, with no requirement for another
licensee to ship the firearm.

AND

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/unlicensed-persons

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.31]

AND FROM THE CA DOJ

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs

I am not an FFL but I want to ship a firearm to a California FFL. Do I have to obtain a Firearms Shipment Approval number before shipping a firearm to California?

No. Only shipments from Federal Firearms Licensees (FFL) require a Firearms Shipment Approval number.

Which implies it is legal for a non licensee to ship to a CA FFL, and with no need for a CFLC approval.

[wireless]

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...alifornia.html

This is not a recommendation of legal action; I'm not a lawyer and do not play one on the internet. I'm just curious whether this constitutes, as it seems it may, a case of conversion.

Yeah we aren't even close to being there yet. This seems like a simple misunderstanding that will get resolved once the owner does more research.

I knew I was fine with federal law and state as well but wanted to make sure there wasn't some new obscure CA state law I haven't known about a this time.

[acespawnshop]

I doubt your link would apply since, FFLs are NOT required to accept from him, but as stated they are allowed to. I doubt seeking clarification before proceeding with a firearms transfer in CA would be considered depriving one of the rights to their property.

[canid]

Yeah, I don't suppose you're at all likely to have to go that direction at all. It was more a curiosity.