was told next year transfer's (fees) going up up up

[Dano3467]

OK while I was picking up my last gun this yr, (a transfer) from Palmetto that next yr (tomorrow) fee's for this are going up about 60% to $100.

So asking here to get answers, he tells me he's losing money as it costs more than $41 to do a transfer, is that right ?

Or do I just need another FFL now ? who's more realistic on price Idk.

Just seems kind of steep just to transfer a firearm, but like I say Idk what go's on at the store, all I know is I pay for everything up front so I just don't see it.

Little help to understand what's what here.

[Dano3467]

so unknown

[bbguns44]

Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

[Dano3467]

That's what I sad, so is it that $41 is just not enough money & needing the greed factor increase of 60% to final cost of $100/transfer ?

Cause that's gonna be a real long term/expensive problem IMHO, as my family regularly does CCW classes there, along with gun sales & transfer's, he'll likely lose all that when I (& sure others) will go to another FFL whose willing to earn money & not extortion fees (supplements).

I think we get enough of that from California already, don't you ?

I've been doing business with this family for over 35yrs, & now looks like the honeymoon is over.

For me it sucks (Idk about you) when greed overcomes common sense to do your people right (loyal customers) over increasing the bottom line.

I could be all wrong, but this is how it looks to me, and will act accordingly.

Needing new recommendation for FFL's in my area CG members, (home based OK with me)

[CSACANNONEER]

Like many owner operated businesses, he will probably never grow his shop to it's full potential because, he will drive business to his competition. It's his business decision and he will have to live with the results whether they help his business or not.

[Cokebottle]

Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

This.

The law hasn't changed.
DROS totals $25, PPT is limited to $35.

FFL transfers are not and never have been limited to any specific amount. It's $25 DROS + Whatever the FFL feels he needs to make it worth his time.

I checked with Turners back in 2009 and was told that they charged $165 for FFL transfers.

They are legally required to do them, so if they don't want to, they price themselves out of the market and you'll go somewhere else.
They're stuck on PPT.

[cyborg]

OK while I was picking up my last gun this yr, (a transfer) from Palmetto that next yr (tomorrow) fee's for this are going up about 60% to $100.

So asking here to get answers, he tells me he's losing money as it costs more than $41 to do a transfer, is that right ?

Or do I just need another FFL now ? who's more realistic on price Idk.

Just seems kind of steep just to transfer a firearm, but like I say Idk what go's on at the store, all I know is I pay for everything up front so I just don't see it.

Little help to understand what's what here.

Did he say it's going up to 100 for everyone that walks in his door, or just for you?

[kemasa]

Before anyone attacks me, I am making comments from the other side, not specifically defending the fee increase.

OK while I was picking up my last gun this yr, (a transfer) from Palmetto that next yr (tomorrow) fee's for this are going up about 60% to $100.

Based on my calculations, that means that the current fee is around $60 or so, correct?

So asking here to get answers, he tells me he's losing money as it costs more than $41 to do a transfer, is that right ?

When you look at all of the overhead costs, it could be that high or perhaps even higher.

There are a lot of expenses that customers don't pay attention to. It is hard to say what his overhead is, but there is the CA inspection, COE, business license, insurance, etc. If he has employees, then there is a lot of expense there as well. Also, some FFLs have a concern that things are going to be really slow this year due to the banic last year.

What hourly rate do you think that the FFL should get?

Or do I just need another FFL now ? who's more realistic on price Idk.

Is the expense the most important aspect? Does good service come into consideration? As the saying goes, the cheap can come out expensive.

Just seems kind of steep just to transfer a firearm, but like I say Idk what go's on at the store, all I know is I pay for everything up front so I just don't see it.

It really depends on what you think a fair wage is. You have to consider ALL of the time involved. The time to send a copy of the FFL to the shipping FFL, which is not always as quick as you would like. When the firearm arrives you need to unpack it and log it in, ensuring that all the required information is there. Before you think that unpacking is nothing, you need to consider how some firearms are shipped. You have some wrapped in a ton of tape and bubblewrap, which can take a long time to access the firearm, especially if you don't want to damage it. Then you have the firearms stuffed with packing peanuts, especially old ones which are in little tiny pieces and which makes a mess everywhere. The firearm has to also be safely put away where it is accessible, but protected. Then you need to contact the customer, which is not always easy since sometimes the information is not give. Once the customer comes in, there is a lot of paperwork and you have to make sure everything is done correctly, which often means going over all of the paperwork to ensure that a mistake was not made. When the customer comes to finish the paperwork, you have to log the firearm out and finish up the paperwork. I am not sure that most FFLs really know how long it all takes, nor all the government fees. Remember, while you pay, the FFL has to deal with the billing for the DROS, sales tax return and income tax return.

Then is all the time to renew permits/licenses, deal with inspections, trace requests, tax returns, both income and sales tax. One of the best is dealing with someone else's problems and that someone typically does not want to pay. Receiving a firearm which has a problem typically means that the customer wants it returned for FREE. The customer typically does not get that it is not the fault of the FFL and has work to do, yet generally the customer does not feel that they should have to pay anything. The customer is taking a risk when they just do a transfer, but typically the FFL can't charge them anything due to the complaints, especially when posted on forums like this. I really have to wonder how customers would feel if their employers did to them what they do to FFLs.

Little help to understand what's what here.

There could be other concerns such as what is going to happen this next year. If the FFL thinks that sales are going to go down, their expenses most likely are not going to go down. What would you do if your hours were cut? Would you want to get more money per hour that you actually work or would you go broke?

Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

It is a lot of paperwork and a lot of time. A FFL has to deal with inspections as well as other things.

That's what I sad, so is it that $41 is just not enough money & needing the greed factor increase of 60% to final cost of $100/transfer ?

So sad that some people can't read and figure things out. The OP said that the COST to the FFL was $41, which means NO PROFIT at that point, and that the cost is going up around 60%, which means that when you calculate it, it means that the current transfer fee is around $60.

It is very easy for those who have no idea of what it all involves to complain. If you think it is so easy and so profitable, then go out and start your own FFL business and see how much money you don't make.

Cause that's gonna be a real long term/expensive problem IMHO, as my family regularly does CCW classes there, along with gun sales & transfer's, he'll likely lose all that when I (& sure others) will go to another FFL whose willing to earn money & not extortion fees (supplements).

Extortion fees? Really? How much do you really think that the FFL is earning per hour?

I think we get enough of that from California already, don't you ?

I think that there are enough attacks by anti-gun people that we don't need more attacks by gun owners, especially when they don't really understand everything, but I guess you don't agree with that.

I've been doing business with this family for over 35yrs, & now looks like the honeymoon is over.

So much for loyalty, right? You have NO idea as to what his expenses are, but you know what he should charge, right? What are you going to do when many FFLs go out of business and your options are limited? You could get to a point where you would either have to buy from the FFL or do without since a FFL is not required to do transfers other than PPTs.

For me it sucks (Idk about you) when greed overcomes common sense to do your people right (loyal customers) over increasing the bottom line.

Common sense and greed? The cost of doing business goes up and the government fees go up, as does insurance. I suppose that if the FFL goes bankrupt and goes out of business that would be better than ensuring that there is a reason to be in business, right?

Perhaps it is not a matter of increasing the bottom line, but trying to ensure that the bottom line does not go down.

I could be all wrong, but this is how it looks to me, and will act accordingly.

I think that you need to think it about it more.

Needing new recommendation for FFL's in my area CG members, (home based OK with me)

This.

The law hasn't changed.
DROS totals $25, PPT is limited to $35.

FFL transfers are not and never have been limited to any specific amount. It's $25 DROS + Whatever the FFL feels he needs to make it worth his time.

Except there are those who berate the FFL when the fee is set to what it is worth. I doubt that most people would work for the money a FFL gets on doing the transfer when you look at all the costs and the time required.

I checked with Turners back in 2009 and was told that they charged $165 for FFL transfers.

They are legally required to do them, so if they don't want to, they price themselves out of the market and you'll go somewhere else.
They're stuck on PPT.

Sorry, but you are wrong. A FFL is not legally required to do any transfer other than a PPT.

Yes, some give a high fee to make people go away instead of saying that they don't want to do it. It does not make sense to me, but to them it does.

The Walmart mentality, it is all about price and nothing about service. A race to the bottom with horrible service and limited choices.

[bbguns44]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbguns44 View Post
Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

It is a lot of paperwork and a lot of time. A FFL has to deal with inspections as well as other things"

It is just paper work. If it takes you a lot of time, then you're incompetent & a moron. My favorite FFL has a line of people waiting to do transfers every time I go in. He has 3 people filling out forms at the same time & juggles all the questions & tasks. He is very good & fast. He's pulling in at least $300/hour for his labor & he charge $40/transfer. Maybe not every hour of the day but certainly every time I go in.

[kemasa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbguns44 View Post
Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

It is a lot of paperwork and a lot of time. A FFL has to deal with inspections as well as other things"

It is just paper work. If it takes you a lot of time, then you're incompetent & a moron. My favorite FFL has a line of people waiting to do transfers every time I go in. He has 3 people filling out forms at the same time & juggles all the questions & tasks. He is very good & fast. He's pulling in at least $300/hour for his labor & he charge $40/transfer. Maybe not every hour of the day but certainly every time I go in.

Really? So since you are so very smart, please tell me how much time he spends BEFORE AND AFTER all of those customers are there going over the paperwork, logging the firearm in and out and everything else. Of course we all know that sales tax returns, for example, take no time at all.

The bottom line is that you see it only from one side and don't really have a clue of what you are talking about. If you really think that he is pocketing $300/hour, then you really need to reconsider who is the moron.

[bubbapug1]

Kemasa, very good posts. I'm glad someone is speaking up with some factual data.

$300.00 in sales does not equal $300.00 in profit. Lots of guys here with no clue what fixed costs are, and can't understand doing transfers and PPT's is a loser for everyone except the state.

[ugimports]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbguns44 View Post
Find another FFL. It's just paper work.

It is a lot of paperwork and a lot of time. A FFL has to deal with inspections as well as other things"

It is just paper work. If it takes you a lot of time, then you're incompetent & a moron. My favorite FFL has a line of people waiting to do transfers every time I go in. He has 3 people filling out forms at the same time & juggles all the questions & tasks. He is very good & fast. He's pulling in at least $300/hour for his labor & he charge $40/transfer. Maybe not every hour of the day but certainly every time I go in.

I remember hearing about another FFL that was doing gangbusters like this a few years ago.. then they got audited... and then they got shut down... not sure of all the details. You must also go in when nobody has questions or issues filling out the forms. I've had customers take 30 minutes filling out a 4473. Could be they forgot their glasses...sometimes they read slow...sometimes ESL. I've also had customers that take about 15 minutes just go get their docs together...forgot something in the car, etc...

You must see your FFL during peak productivity, but keep in mind it's not 100% like that for any FFL ever. We're pretty streamlined, but as Kemasa pointed out for the 10-15 mins "front office" time we spend with a customer there is plenty more of "back office" time. When you factor in doing the safe handling demo which alone can take 5-10 mins (for non exempt transactions) there's a lot of time you don't see.

It's nice that you consider most of the FFLs in the state morons and incompetent. You should consider starting your own business since you can make $300/hr easily it seems. I don't even make that during my day job and I get paid pretty well in the hi-tech industry.

[Cokebottle]

Except there are those who berate the FFL when the fee is set to what it is worth. I doubt that most people would work for the money a FFL gets on doing the transfer when you look at all the costs and the time required.

Don't get me wrong... though I have never used an FFL for anything other than purchase, and a couple or four PPTs, I am thankful that there ARE good people in the LA area who charge low transfer fees.

I also hope that their customers who take advantage of those low fees also stick around to make purchases rather than going to BassPro and Turners at the drop of a sales flyer.

[Tyke8319]

My suggestion is that if you don't like how a shop is operated and don't have the ability to figure out what the projected costs are to run a business go somewhere else or quite sniveling and open your own shop and keep, and please, keep us posted as to how long you last...