Intra-family transfer to my wife

[Noonanda]

Backstory, Was a California resident, moved to Virginia after taking a new job and now have a Virginia License.
Wife (California resident/California license) and family is still in California for a bit longer, at least for the next few months.

I purchased a couple handguns that are off roster that at least one of them will get transferred into her name as a Christmas present. She has a California Handgun Safety Card.

I am going to contact a FFL in my former town to do the transfer, what do I need to tell him. I do know that it must go through said FFL because I am no longer a California resident and this is why I cannot just submit the Intra-family transfer form. I am also debating whither to mail the firearms to the FFL and get the transfer done ASAP, or wait until I come home for a short time during Christmas

Any help would be appreciated

[LeadFarmer74]

This wouldn't be an interstate intrafamlial transfer but wife/husband does work. Therefore the guns would not be subject to the roster.

*See Librarian's post #10.

[SkyHawk]

It is true, the off roster exemption does not apply to spouse if it is coming from out of state. Only parent/grandparent/child/grandchild transfers are roster exempt when coming from out of state.

You have to send her an on roster pistol, or wait until she gets there.

[Noonanda]

I was told by a California FFL before I had moved that The only reason I even need to do the transfer is because I am no longer a California resident, otherwise as husband wife we both own the firearms for all extensive purposes. So can I leave these firearms in California since I still own a house in California. I was also told that the oplaw does cover it as it is not required to list the "Sellers info" per say.

here is an old link discussing it

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/archive/index.php/t-1086733.html

[Noonanda]

Also per the DOJ website

Question # 6

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#6

[LeadFarmer74]

Librarian will be in shortly.

[Noonanda]

Ok thanks

[SkyHawk]

I was told by a California FFL before I had moved that The only reason I even need to do the transfer is because I am no longer a California resident, otherwise as husband wife we both own the firearms for all extensive purposes. So can I leave these firearms in California since I still own a house in California. I was also told that the oplaw does cover it as it is not required to list the "Sellers info" per say.

If you have any nexus to CA and could be considered a resident, like say you plan to take a tax deduction for that house you still own here, and if you acquired these handguns out of state after Jan 1 2015, you cannot 'leave' them here. It is a felony to even bring them here. PC27585

And question number 6 on that DOJ FAQ you linked only applies to people who are BOTH CA residents. The CA DOJ is infamous for giving bad advice when it comes to federal laws.

So you can't have it both ways. If you want to claim dual residency, (and actually you don't get to declare it, you either are or you are not based on a set of unique facts applicable only to your circumstance, and to be determined by a good lawyer) - you cannot bring those off roster pistols back. And if you are not dual resident, then you must use FFL and the roster applies.

Bottom line, no matter what - if you acquired those handguns outside CA after Jan 1 2015, they are not coming back here unless they are on roster or you have a child, grandchild, parent, or grandparent here, or you plan to transfer them to a CA LEO.

[Noonanda]

If you have any nexus to CA and could be considered a resident, like say you plan to take a tax deduction for that house you still own here, and if you acquired these handguns out of state after Jan 1 2015, you cannot 'leave' them here. It is a felony to even bring them here. PC27585

I am by Virginia Law a resident as I work and maintain a residence here with a Va Drivers License. But I do still own a house in California, and will have to pay California taxes on the Wages I earned in California until I took this position here in virginia in the End of August. By Virginia law I became a resident after I met the requirements for Va Residency, and changed to a Va drivers license after presenting the appropriate forms and pay Virginia state taxes.

How is it a felony to "even bring them to California"? So you are saying a Non-resident can never bring a gun that is not on the roster to California? Please clarify your comment

[Librarian]

This wouldn't be an interstate intrafamlial transfer

because wife/husband doesn't work.

Therefore the guns would be subject to the roster.

First part is right, wouldn't be intrafamilial, but it DOES work and spouse-spouse transfer is exempt from the Roster.

PC 16990 describes the 'operation of law' transactions, including

(g) A transmutation of property consisting of a firearm pursuant to Section 850 of the Family Code.

and PC 27920 exempts those OPLAW transactions

27920.

(a) Section 27545 does not apply to a person who takes title or possession of a firearm by operation of law if the person is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm and all of the following conditions are met:

...

(2) If the person taking title or possession is receiving the firearm pursuant to subdivision (g) or (h) of Section 16990, the person shall do both of the following:

(A) Within 30 days of taking possession, submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title or possession was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question.
...

[Noonanda]

First part is right, wouldn't be intrafamilial, but it DOES work and spouse-spouse transfer is exempt from the Roster.

PC 16990 describes the 'operation of law' transactions, including and PC 27920 exempts those OPLAW transactions

So I still need to do a transfer to comply with Federal law, and by doing so it would also be exempt from State Roster Requirements. When I do this does the California FFL run in the DROS system as if it was a out of state intra-family transfer?

[Noonanda]

If you are NOT and in no way, shape or form could be considered a CA resident, then sure you can VISIT with them, but you CANNOT transfer them to your wife without using a CA FFL, and the roster applies.

If you can, in any way shape or form, still be considered a CA resident, and you got them out of state after Jan 1 2015, then you CANNOT bring them here. Not even to visit. PC27585

read Librarians comments, Must use a California FFL (which I did know) but Roster does not apply(which I also had been told but was confirming by asking what the California FFL needed to do on his end.)

[SkyHawk]

That is why he is the librarian. I was only familiar with the PC27875 exemption which defines immediate family as exempt, and a spouse is not (counter-intuitively) immediate family. I was aware of transmutation but did not think it allowed for an out of state transfer into the state. But looking at how it reads, it is the same type of exemption as PC27875 and should apply to a FFL transfer.

And yes, no matter what I would use a CA FFL to transfer these, if you obtained them out of state after Jan 1 2015. I would not gamble with CA's residency views, just send them to a FFL here by common carrier.

[Noonanda]

That is why he is the librarian. I was only familiar with the PC27875 exemption which defines immediate family as exempt, and a spouse is not (counter-intuitively) immediate family. I was aware of transmutation but did not think it allowed for an out of state transfer into the state. But looking at how it reads, it is the same type of exemption as PC27875 and should apply to a FFL transfer.

And yes, no matter what I would use a CA FFL to transfer these, if you obtained them out of state after Jan 1 2015. I would not gamble with CA's residency views, just send them to a FFL here by common carrier.

Well I will be coming back for Christmas to visit,I was thinking about bringing them with me. but I might mail em so that my wife can get the dros done and we can go shooting when I get home.

[LeadFarmer74]

Well I will be coming back for Christmas to visit,I was thinking about bringing them with me. but I might mail em so that my wife can get the dros done and we can go shooting when I get home.

She will be subject to 1 in 30 though.