Do you ever need to be "in the closet" in the firearms industry? (dealing with banks)

[Tovarish]

I'll be starting a business partnership soon with an FFL and I am having some difficulty communicating with the non-firearms sectors of industry, considering the stigma attached to guns, especially in places like Los Angeles.

Today I went to a Wells Fargo to inquire about loans and when the banker asked me the nature of my business, I told him it was "military and law enforcement supplies." That's accurate but only by virtue of being a firearms business, and I had heard the recent news that Wells Fargo was uncomfortable processing transactions with "online weapons retailers." I'm not going to be an online weapons retailer, whatever that is, but it gave me pause about describing the business in firearms terms. I also considered calling it sporting goods.

How do you approach this? Am I being paranoid and should I just be upfront about it?

[audiophil2]

It is probably better to be upfront. Banks that find out you sell guns that have a no guns policy can drop you fast. Same as processing companies.

I was honest about my business. I told the processing companies I sold firearms including machine guns online. I got put into the highest risk category which is the same for porn and offshore gambling sites.

My bank has been ok with me but the local branch manager likes guns. Actually, just about everyone at the bank likes guns so I think they are doing something to keep corporate away from me.

The smaller banks and credit unions are friendlier. I have a back up account at a local bank just in case I lose my primary account. I changed over to an NRA card processor and get better rates now and better service.


There is a big difference between an online weapons retailer and a brick and mortar retailer in the eyes o f the banking industry. If you do not plan to sell guns online let them know. If oyu plan to sell accessories online use a different processor for lower rates. I was using a processor for online gun sales and a different one for accessories. I've got 2 swipe machines here for 2 processors but I started using a web terminal for phone transactions because the rates are lower than manually entering card numbers in the swipe machine.

[Tovarish]

Thanks for the advice, Phil. I actually happen to know a regular at my range who manages a Wells Fargo branch. I just forgot which branch. Oops. If a branch manager's vouching is helpful, I'll have to figure out which one it is and hit him up.

[ugimports]

Wells Fargo will handle your bank account fine. Their CC processing side does not do firearms industry. I was up front when opened account their as a firearms retailer.

For CC processing I use: http://www.ware-everpay.com/
There's a few more out there, but as phil mentioned depending how you are doing your business / selling shop around. I needed zen cart integration via authorize.net style gateway so that limited my choices among the 2a friendly processors.

I think Eureka Payments is another and a Calguns member too.

[Baboosh]

Chase dropped us as a business and closed our personal accounts. Got a letter in the mail saying they are enacting their right to close our acounts and we have 1 week.

CitiBank just recently cancelled our creditcard. Lately when we go in to make a payment they ask questions about type of company and whatw e sell and they enter it into their computer. Well apparently Firearm Manufacturer sparked an internal flag and BAM! one day our cards stopped working. We have had this card for over 10 years, never carried a balance and never late.

For CC processing we have lost multiple. Right now we use Mercury Pay. We seem to lose them as they are bought our or merged with larger ones who don't agree with our business type. We are too 'High Risk". Yea, because someone comes in, shows ID and proof of residency, gives a thumbprint, state runs a backgorund check on them to make sure they are who they say they are, and then they come back, show ID again and wait 10 days. Yea, we are SO high risk.

[ugimports]

Chase dropped us as a business and closed our personal accounts. Got a letter in the mail saying they are enacting their right to close our acounts and we have 1 week.

Good to know I was debating on looking at Chase since I have a personal account over there, but no more!

CitiBank just recently cancelled our creditcard. Lately when we go in to make a payment they ask questions about type of company and whatw e sell and they enter it into their computer. Well apparently Firearm Manufacturer sparked an internal flag and BAM! one day our cards stopped working. We have had this card for over 10 years, never carried a balance and never late.

We use citibank for our main work CC too..It isn't registered to the business so I may have able to stay under the radar on that one, but good to know.

For CC processing we have lost multiple. Right now we use Mercury Pay. We seem to lose them as they are bought our or merged with larger ones who don't agree with our business type. We are too 'High Risk". Yea, because someone comes in, shows ID and proof of residency, gives a thumbprint, state runs a backgorund check on them to make sure they are who they say they are, and then they come back, show ID again and wait 10 days. Yea, we are SO high risk.

Fortunately, I haven't been dropped. I previously had First National Merchant Services that eventually got merged into TSys.. I had heard TSys was anti so I left before finding out if they were going to boot me or not..

Based on experiences from others I made sure to be very up front on what I was doing..

[Tovarish]

Anyone ever seen Boogie Nights where Don Cheadle goes into a bank to inquire about loans and the bank won't finance him just because he used to make porn?

What a bunch of baloney. Chase and Citibank can suck it.

[Baboosh]

Good to know I was debating on looking at Chase since I have a personal account over there, but no more!

We use citibank for our main work CC too..It isn't registered to the business so I may have able to stay under the radar on that one, but good to know.


Fortunately, I haven't been dropped. I previously had First National Merchant Services that eventually got merged into TSys.. I had heard TSys was anti so I left before finding out if they were going to boot me or not..

Based on experiences from others I made sure to be very up front on what I was doing..

Our Citi card was not tied to our FFL either, it was a personal card. But since we are paid cash at times and the bank charges 1% to deposit cash we would take the cash to pay off the card every month. This is when the questions started and I should have just said stripper. But since I told them what I do for work I think that is what flagged it.

Sad part is now that Costco switched to Citi our Amex was closed and automatically setup to Citi. Well now our Costco CitiCard was closed.

It's beyond frustrating.

[ugimports]

Our Citi card was not tied to our FFL either, it was a personal card. But since we are paid cash at times and the bank charges 1% to deposit cash we would take the cash to pay off the card every month. This is when the questions started and I should have just said stripper. But since I told them what I do for work I think that is what flagged it.

Sad part is now that Costco switched to Citi our Amex was closed and automatically setup to Citi. Well now our Costco CitiCard was closed.

It's beyond frustrating.

Oh crap, I'm in the same boat - I thought you had a business citi card tied to FFL. My citi perks are miles,,.. Maybe when they ask what I do for work I'll answer my day job I like going to Costco...

[Baboosh]

Yup. It all starts when we walked into the bank to make cash payments.

We had the AA card, took our family trip yearly with miles every year.

Now I'm stuck with an Alaskan BofA card.


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[ugimports]

Yup. It all starts when we walked into the bank to make cash payments.

We had the AA card, took our family trip yearly with miles every year.

Now I'm stuck with an Alaskan BofA card.


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Crap I have the AA card...I won't make any cash payments :P

Wells Fargo charges $3 after X amount of cash deposits.

BofA I hear is Anti-2A...don't know how far they take it though..

[Baboosh]

Yup, I'm hoping to slide under the radar.

I almost threw a fit when I was told the bank charges 1% for cash deposits. They are a BANK, that's what they do.


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[Tovarish]

If you miss Amex, Delta and Virgin both have airline miles cards via American Express that are reputable.

Amex has certainly earned my respect after seeing what a mess Citibank made when undercutting them with Costco. Also when I needed to carry a balance longer than I expected Amex stepped up and offered me 7.9% interest even though they didn't have to.

[Tovarish]

Yup, I'm hoping to slide under the radar.

I almost threw a fit when I was told the bank charges 1% for cash deposits. They are a BANK, that's what they do.


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I just about flipped a table over at a Chase bank when I tried to deposit cash into my wife's account and was told they no longer accept cash deposits from "third parties" and I need to get a Chase account and use Quick Pay.

[I Swan]

Anyone ever seen Boogie Nights where Don Cheadle goes into a bank to inquire about loans and the bank won't finance him just because he used to make porn?

What a bunch of baloney. Chase and Citibank can suck it.

I'm an actor! Great film. Once In was sitting down waiting for A friend and someone was trying to get a loan. Hebtild the loan officer you don't want to give me a loan because I'm Black. That was an awkward moment. Never though I'd see that with guns.

Banks are greedy bastards I'm surprised being PC and fear has been outweighing that.