CA AW or just a stipped down firearm?

[audiophil2]

Some guns I get from the manufacturer arrive in small boxes because they have folding stock or are disassembled at the factory level. I'll give 3 examples.

1. A typical break shotgun. Most of these have the barrels removed so they fit in a smaller box. Since most pump shotguns are nto listed or featured as CA AW's this is not a problem.

2. Oddball break down semi auto rifles like the DRD Tactical Paratus. It comes in a small Pelican case with the lower and upper separated. This gun would be considered a CA AW since it has a detachable mag. Once I install a bullet button the lower half should be considered CA compliant. The gun is over 30" even when the stock is folded. The gun ships with the barrel and handguard in the top part of the case and the lower with upper receiver pinned together and folding stock install in the bottom of the case.
Would this be considered a CA AW since the lower (back end of the gun) is under 30" even with the bullet button installed? If I wanted to push my safety I suppose I could lock a round into the bolt and fire it without the barrel installed. Would separating the upper receiver from the lower make it compliant?

3. CZ scorpion carbine.

This is a really dumb one The carbine box is sized so that the stock has to be folded to fit the gun. In order to make this what I consider CA compliant I install the bullet button and lock the stock so that it cannot fold. Since the stock is locked open the gun is too long for the box. My solution is to remove the fire control box from the gun and the stock. This leaves just an upper barrelled half that cannot be fired. The stock can be slid on after DROS and the trigger box installed making it a functional gun.

My other option is to cut open the side of the box so the stock can stick out. I don't mind doing it but not that there is a good chance these guns can be registered as assault weapons I would prefer to leave the box in original condition.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[mkasda]

As long as the firearm is not banned by name then see below:

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: Bullet Button Exception
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. Don’t insert an over ten round mag in a bullet button rifle.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
A receiver is not a rifle. Lowers generally don’t need a bullet button while a lower (i.e. they can be used on a 22 lr upper, bolt action upper, single shot upper, etc.)
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following: Bullet Button Exception
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. Don’t insert an over ten round mag in a bullet button pistol.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock. Don’t mix a folding stock and pistol grip on a semiauto shotgun – it’s either or.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
Bullet Button Exception
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

All of your hypothetical question look legal. Your question #1 looks good for barrels over 18" long. Regarding questions #2 & #3, some FFLs prefer to ship lowers with a bullet button installed and shipping the Scorpion with an attached fixed stock would not be required, but would be safer.

[audiophil2]

I shipped about 20 scorpions with the trigger pack removed and the stock pin punched out. The stock is already locked so it cannot fold so all it needs is to slide it on and install the trigger pack that already has a raddlock on it.

So far I have not had any issues except for 1 ffl that is sending it back. Before I ship another 20scorpions I want some opinion from other ca ffl holders if they would have an issue with it shipped as I described. I don't think it is an illegal configuration but it is ultimately up to the CA FFL to determine and I would respect that oinion.

[kemasa]

The issue is that if all the parts are in the box, then it could be considered to be in a take-down condition, which then if all the parts are put together it is a so-called a-salt weapon, then it would be prohibited. If when all the parts in the box are put together it does not qualify, then it should be ok.

One solution is to ship the receiver separately.

In case #2 above, can the firearm be shot in a configuration which is less than 30" in length?

[audiophil2]

The issue is that if all the parts are in the box, then it could be considered to be in a take-down condition, which then if all the parts are put together it is a so-called a-salt weapon, then it would be prohibited. If when all the parts in the box are put together it does not qualify, then it should be ok.

When all the parts are put back together it is in a CA compliant configuration. it is just taken down to fit in the factory box. it a bullet button installed in the mag catch area. it has a custom device that prevents the stock from folding. the stock has to be installed first which cannot fold anymore due to the modification. then the trigger pack is installed that has a bullet button already. IT IS NOT A STRIPPED DOWN CA AW. IT IS A DISASSEMBLED CA COMPLIANT RIFLE. I only have 1 FFL so far that wont accept it. Every other FFL has had no problem witht he way it was shipped. I just don;t want more FFLs to err on the side of caution when it is clearly not a broken down CA AW.

One solution is to ship the receiver separately.

In case #2 above, can the firearm be shot in a configuration which is less than 30" in length?

I have not taken it out of the case recently but just imagine an AR10 with no barrel installed. I suppose a cartridge could be fed into the upper but it would be potentially fatal. I could remove the upper receiver from the lower but I would argue it is in a state of repair and under 30". I will just assemble the gun and pack it in a much larger box. It is a $6000 rifle so I guess I can eat the shipping.

It looks like this

http://drdtactical.com/product/paratus-p762-gen-2/

[kemasa]

With the upper off, it does not make it a complete rifle, so the 30" does not apply. No barrel makes it in an unfireable condition and not an issue.

[kemasa]

The bottom line is if all the parts are the the box/package and when it is all put together it is CA legal, there is no issue. You don't have to ship it all put together.