Seeking feedback on software for FFLs

[GunShopWatchList]

http://GunShopWatchList.com

Thank you in advance.

- Seth @ GSWL

[kemasa]

Nice idea, but I really don't think it will work. What if I just don't like someone and then make false claims about them so that other FFLs won't sell to them? Who is responsible?

Without a name and other information, it is impossible to know who the person is. A FFL can't have a list of 10k photos to go through to check each customer.

[GunShopWatchList]

Thanks for the reply kemasa. I agree that FFLs aren't going to sit on a site and sort through "10k photos", and that's not the idea — at all!

I believe issues like this are time critical, which is why alerts would be sent to local FFLs via email, text, etc. Someone looking to "do bad", either to themselves or others generally will be seeking to purchase a gun right then.

The notices sent by the app would keep those faces fresh in the mind of local FFLs when it's most critical.

Additionally, we would provide fields for name and other identifiers that could be searched. As I speak with local gun store owners I'm finding that while most find it virtuous, it needs to be a part of a larger offering that provides value to gun sellers. Perhaps I could include searching our "watch list", while also performing a NICS eCheck!

My current thinking is that this would be a component of an overall software package that managed your entire store, including Electronic Bound Book, Dealer to Dealer eTransfer, and maintaining inventory and your WWW presence. As I'm really new to this field in general I'd love to hear from others if this would provide enough value to get the "watch list" component widely adopted.

[kemasa]

If you have a photo. You still need to get everyone at the location to look at the photos and remember them. The name is easier since you can setup a process to search.

There is also the aspect of how it would be viewed by customers that the FFL is doing some strange search on them which is not part of the official process.

It could be several days. Unless you limit the notice to FFLs in the same general area, a lot of it would just be a waste of time.

[GunShopWatchList]

Unless you limit the notice to FFLs in the same general area, a lot of it would just be a waste of time.

That's exactly how it works. Notices go to other local FFLs, not everyone nationwide who has access to the system.

I'm also wondering if perhaps we provided a "Responsible FFL Certification" would that be important to buyers and FFLs? Might be a way to distinguish your shop from others in the area. Show you care about the local community enough to self-police and look out for your neighbors?

[ugimports]

How would this conceptually be different than the no-fly list if used to deny 2A rights? If this is used wouldn't it provide ammo for the anti's saying we're all for lists without due process?

[acespawnshop]

I see your point UG. Here's the issue we already have a system in place that lets us know if we should proceed with the firearm sale already. We already know that if we are uncomfortable with the transaction we do not have to proceed with the sale. Where this is a different concept and founded with good intentions I think that the cons here might more than we realize. If you're denying somebody else their 2A rights based on information gathered by somebody else that might be a pandoras box of problems. I already think the CA background check system has too many problems, ex AB500 and all the undetermineds we see. Now maybe a general forum where you have to be a dealer to be on the forum where you can discuss topics. Sort of a calguns but a closed forum only for dealers might be cool.

[ugimports]

...Sort of a calguns but a closed forum only for dealers might be cool.

fflsonly.com

They maintain a blacklist of customers there. A lot of them are CC fraud customers. Some are general jerks. It's a national forum.

[kemasa]

While I think that FFLs might look at the information, I think that it is less likely that the FFL will take the time and effort to report a problem customer. Some would, in some cases, but I am not sure of how often. There is also the aspect that if a FFL reports an issue with a customer and another FFL refuses based on that, exactly how upset might a customer might get with the original FFL?

[kemasa]

fflsonly.com

They maintain a blacklist of customers there. A lot of them are CC fraud customers. Some are general jerks. It's a national forum.

There is also another one, which seems to be just about dead.

If you are a FFL, I would suggest signing up, it is free.

[GunShopWatchList]

How would this conceptually be different than the no-fly list if used to deny 2A rights? If this is used wouldn't it provide ammo for the anti's saying we're all for lists without due process?

[ugimports]

It's opt in for the customers you put on the list?
it's transparent and open for the customers you put on the list?
What is the process for them to be notified they are on the list and how to get off?
Where's the "due process"?

^^ those are the similarities I see to the no fly list...

I understand what you're going for though, but not sure how the consumer is supposed to know they've been blackballed and why or how to appeal...

[GunShopWatchList]

I see your point UG. Here's the issue we already have a system in place that lets us know if we should proceed with the firearm sale already. We already know that if we are uncomfortable with the transaction we do not have to proceed with the sale. Where this is a different concept and founded with good intentions I think that the cons here might more than we realize. If you're denying somebody else their 2A rights based on information gathered by somebody else that might be a pandoras box of problems. I already think the CA background check system has too many problems, ex AB500 and all the undetermineds we see. Now maybe a general forum where you have to be a dealer to be on the forum where you can discuss topics. Sort of a calguns but a closed forum only for dealers might be cool.

A "calguns closed forum for dealers" is pretty much what it is [but modernized], with the added benefit of being able to alert others with "push" notifications.

Might be simply a language exercise, but I'm of the mind that it's not "denying someone their 2A rights" if you refuse their business. That's like saying you're "denying a human the right to eat" if you turn them away from your restaurant for not wearing a shirt or shoes. Am I crazy?

[ugimports]

A "calguns closed forum for dealers" is pretty much what it is, with the added benefit of being able to alert others with "push" notifications.

Might be simply a language exercise, but I'm of the mind that it's not "denying someone their 2A rights" if you refuse their business. That's like saying you're "denying a human the right to eat" if you turn them away from your restaurant for not wearing a shirt or shoes. Am I crazy?

Other than the proactive notifications - check out fflsonly.com and perhaps see how this would differ substantially from that site which has nationwide FFLs and a blacklist forum concept already.

[GunShopWatchList]

I understand what you're going for though, but not sure how the consumer is supposed to know they've been blackballed and why or how to appeal...