FFL Buying Out of State

[Nardo1895]

Hi, I'm a new FFL here in CA.

I am headed to Texas and plan to attend a gunshow while there. I'm wondering if/how I can buy a firearm to put in my inventory. I searched on this forum and it appears I can with exchange of FFLs. But the post was from 2010 and I'm not sure if that was before the CFLC system was in place.

So my question is, when I'm out of state can I buy from an out of state FFL and take possession, or does the FFL still have to obtain CFLC authorization first?

I'm petty sure I can buy from a private party, true?

Thanks.

Mike

[ugimports]

I've not done it, but I think:
Yes you can buy out of state
I think they need to produce the firearm shipment approval number. The CFLC verbage seems to say "ship or transfer".
Yes you can buy from private party

CFLC system existed in 2010.

[kemasa]

Yes, they have to get you the CFLC letter, which is a pain when it is not really being shipped and you might get some resistance on that. For non-FFLs, no letter is required.

[Nardo1895]

Thanks. That's what I thought but was hoping for a different answer. I should stop trying to use logic in interpreting CA gun laws.

[Lives_In_Fresno]

I've not done it, but I think:
Yes you can buy out of state
I think they need to produce the firearm shipment approval number. The CFLC verbage seems to say "ship or transfer".
Yes you can buy from private party

CFLC system existed in 2010.

I think this is the main reason why so many non-CA FFL's won't ship to California under any circumstances. The hoops that CA requires are just to onerous.

[ugimports]

I think this is the main reason why so many non-CA FFL's won't ship to California under any circumstances. The hoops that CA requires are just to onerous.

If onerous = logging into a website and taking 2 minutes to produce a number then yes I agree.. I personally would spend the 2 minutes to make a gun sale rather than be completely ignorant. Mostly it's out of state FFLs being fed FUD about the process such as it costs them $$. It costs them no $$ except about 5 minutes to initially sign up using information on their FFL. Then it takes about 2 minutes to produce a number each time they need it.

[audiophil2]

If onerous = logging into a website and taking 2 minutes to produce a number then yes I agree.. I personally would spend the 2 minutes to make a gun sale rather than be completely ignorant. Mostly it's out of state FFLs being fed FUD about the process such as it costs them $$. It costs them no $$ except about 5 minutes to initially sign up using information on their FFL. Then it takes about 2 minutes to produce a number each time they need it.

It does cost money. Ink, paper, utilities, equipment life cycles, and time are not free. I could go into more details about how much a pain the cflc system is for regular CA shippers like myself let alone new users that are used to just tossing an invoice and a copy of their ffl into a box for non CA shipments but it would be a very lengthy post.

The fact that DOJ hardly ever looks at those print outs is the worst part. The DOJ has electronic copies of them when they are submitted. There is absolutely no reason for paper copies to be included with guns.

[ugimports]

It does cost money. Ink, paper, utilities, equipment life cycles, and time are not free. I could go into more details about how much a pain the cflc system is for regular CA shippers like myself let alone new users that are used to just tossing an invoice and a copy of their ffl into a box for non CA shipments but it would be a very lengthy post.

The fact that DOJ hardly ever looks at those print outs is the worst part. The DOJ has electronic copies of them when they are submitted. There is absolutely no reason for paper copies to be included with guns.

Printout not required, but yes I do agree it costs time. I suppose if the 5-10 minutes isn't worth the sale then it's not worth the sale (that was my point). It's just like everything else though. If the time/ink was the issue for these other dealers what I would say is CA shipments +$10.. why say No when I can charge for my time / build it into my margin.. Most of these guys that say "NO TO CA" are either lazy or trying to make a political statement.

Clearly the reason you + others are doing it is because you make money. You wouldn't do it if the headache wasn't worth the $.

[Baboosh]

Printout is not needed of CFLC, just write the number down.

As someone who goes to out of state shows a lot it is very easy to buy from dealers and individuals. Be well versed in CA laws and be able to articulate to them professionally, I have never been told no and have used my phone to help other FFLs at gun shows get a CFLC number.

there is A LOT of FUD out there about CA, you'll never be amazed at what you will hear so be prepared to stay calm and explain it.

[kemasa]

The simple fact is that if the FFL refuses to ship to CA, then they are doing the will of the anti-gun crowd. If said FFL can not be educated, then they should be avoided, for everything, as they are really anti-gun.

Only the number is needed and all of it can be emailed, or printed with the invoice. There is some time, but when I look at the time it is claimed to take, it seems to me that some people are really SLOW.

[Nardo1895]

In my first try the ffl said he tried it once but he could not get it to work. Said he called doj 3 times with no return call. I may go back today with my tablet and see if I can walk him through it. I had to fill out so many forms to get my ffl I can't remember how quick the verification system registration was, but I think it was fast. I suspect when he tried before he tried to do it without registering first.

CA is a PITA, but seems like eliminating 30 million potential gun buyers isn't a good business decision. However, it's everybody's choice to make.

[ugimports]

In my first try the ffl said he tried it once but he could not get it to work. Said he called doj 3 times with no return call. I may go back today with my tablet and see if I can walk him through it. I had to fill out so many forms to get my ffl I can't remember how quick the verification system registration was, but I think it was fast. I suspect when he tried before he tried to do it without registering first.

CA is a PITA, but seems like eliminating 30 million potential gun buyers isn't a good business decision. However, it's everybody's choice to make.

Send him this link:

http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Sign_Up_Process_-_CA_DOJ_CFLC.pdf

I also offer to do it for remote FFLs. The only info you need other than what is on their FFL is an email address they want to associate with it and what they want to use as an "invoice number" (can be anything).

I've done this for a couple where I got my FSA number after getting them registered and then emailed them over the username/password for their continued use later.

[Nardo1895]

Thanks, that is pretty handy.

[audiophil2]

Printout not required, but yes I do agree it costs time. I suppose if the 5-10 minutes isn't worth the sale then it's not worth the sale (that was my point). It's just like everything else though. If the time/ink was the issue for these other dealers what I would say is CA shipments +$10.. why say No when I can charge for my time / build it into my margin.. Most of these guys that say "NO TO CA" are either lazy or trying to make a political statement.

Clearly the reason you + others are doing it is because you make money. You wouldn't do it if the headache wasn't worth the $.

I know CA Law but i also know CA FFLs do not know the law. How about I start just writing the approval number on my invoices and for every gun sent back to me you pay me $80 which would cover the shipping and labor needed to send it again with the non required print out? Or should I just email you a few PDFs showing FFLs clearly stating they will return the shipment if the approval letter is not in the box?

The time it takes to print out the letter is not the issue and why I stated I could go into a long and boring detail on how screwed up the system is in CA. Most of the time CA FFLs do not supply the CFD#. It can take me up to 5 days to get it. You would think that a Ca FFL would know the number is needed but nope. They have no clue. I've cut down on accepting new CA FFLs and have shortened my current CA FFL list because of these reasons:
1. FFL won't include CFD#
2. FFL does not know if a converted gun is legal so he ships it back
3. FFL overcharges tax
4. FFL changes policy more than once a month or on the fly to prevent out of state transfers
5. FFL steals parts from my shipments and blames me.


Charge a $10 Ca resident fee? The backlash and calls for boycotting would go global in seconds. Smart proposal.

The simple fact is that if the FFL refuses to ship to CA, then they are doing the will of the anti-gun crowd. If said FFL can not be educated, then they should be avoided, for everything, as they are really anti-gun.

How dare you call any free state gun shop anti-gun! CA FFLs advocated for universal background checks through PPT and then cried when they realized the $10 profit was impacting their business. There are plenty of stories on this website about how CA FFLs are illegally overcharging for PPTs or flat out illegally refusing to do them. You are a total hypocrite when you call anyone anti-gun. You pay taxes to the biggest anti-gun lobby in the world and support their efforts to add to your profits.


Only the number is needed and all of it can be emailed, or printed with the invoice. There is some time, but when I look at the time it is claimed to take, it seems to me that some people are really SLOW.

Sure I am slow. It's not like I am not in the business of selling guns or anything. My 200 itrader compared to your 5 itrader makes me wonder if oyu even have an FFL. What is your first 3 and last 5 so I can see how busy you are actually selling guns? Or the name of your shop? A few phone calls and I can pull up all your purchases. I know I sure would not have the time to play with databases if I was actually selling something.

By looking at your website and gunbroker account it looks like oyu do not actually sell any guns. At least not more than what would be considered a hobby. If I shipped 5 guns a year on average which might be more than what you do now I would not complain about extra paperwork. You sell nothing. You do nothing but play on the computer.


Here is Kemasa's gunbroker auctions:
Must be a glitch because it is a big fat goose egg.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=426228

Here are the guns listed for sale on his website:
Savage 59RXL Series E shotgun, 12ga.
Terni bolt action rifle, caliber 3.5 (hard to read)
Crossman CO2 pellet gun, revolver
"Blue Streak" 5m/m cal pellet gun, bolt action rifle

Oops, 2 of those can be bought at a yard sale in CA and do not need a background check.

So Kemasa has zero guns in inventory but then we get to see this tidbit:

Orders:
$25 in addition to the Transfer cost only if you know exactly what you want and where to get it from (with limited exceptions based on the catalogs that I have). 100% prepaid in advance. No refunds after the order has been placed (very limited exceptions). Other orders by special arrangement.

SO Kemasa has zero guns but if you want to buy a gun from him he will charge you for the gun and the privilege of him ordering the gun. He wants $25 just to pick up the phone and order a gun or log into his distributor account and make a few mouse clicks.

Now you better not be late when oyu tell him you want to come over and pay that $25 for the privilege of ordering a gun from him because he is by appointment only (read: his FFL is for hobby use and he has to be home from work first) AND if you are late you are subject to this:

Other:
All business is done by appointment. If you are late for an appointment by over 15 minutes, there will be a charge of $60/hour with a minimum charge of $15


Yet a shop outside Ca that does not want to go through the headaches of fighting other CA FFLs, dealing with Ca DOJ (yes they call when oyu guys get busted for making illegal conversions with our guns), extra paperwork, and hoping to find a CA FFL that does not have anti-Ca resident policies like Kemesa's is anti-gun.

[kemasa]

I
Sure I am slow. It's not like I am not in the business of selling guns or anything. My 200 itrader compared to your 5 itrader makes me wonder if oyu even have an FFL.

Yeah, you are slow, but in another way. It seems that you have to resort to personal attacks in insults, just to show how stupid you are. Yeah, your itrader really means something like you are better than me.

What is your first 3 and last 5 so I can see how busy you are actually selling guns? Or the name of your shop? A few phone calls and I can pull up all your purchases. I know I sure would not have the time to play with databases if I was actually selling something.

Are you really saying that you can pull up records that you should not have access to? Perhaps I should give you the info so that I can put you out of business for being stupid and admitting it in public.

By looking at your website and gunbroker account it looks like oyu do not actually sell any guns. At least not more than what would be considered a hobby. If I shipped 5 guns a year on average which might be more than what you do now I would not complain about extra paperwork. You sell nothing. You do nothing but play on the computer.

Well, your posts make you look stupid and that is a fact. You false statements reflect very poorly on you.

It seems that when you are told that you are wrong, you have to act like a child and lash out at the person in order to try to get back at them and then somehow claim that makes you correct or something.

Here is Kemasa's gunbroker auctions:
Must be a glitch because it is a big fat goose egg.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=426228

Here are the guns listed for sale on his website:
Savage 59RXL Series E shotgun, 12ga.
Terni bolt action rifle, caliber 3.5 (hard to read)
Crossman CO2 pellet gun, revolver
"Blue Streak" 5m/m cal pellet gun, bolt action rifle

Oops, 2 of those can be bought at a yard sale in CA and do not need a background check.

Yeah, so what? Those are from a long time friend of mine who passed away, which is the only reason I have those listed. It really seems that you have a lot of time to try to do research on me to try to harass me, but all that proves is that you are a child and have far too much time on your hands.

So Kemasa has zero guns in inventory but then we get to see this tidbit:

Orders:
$25 in addition to the Transfer cost only if you know exactly what you want and where to get it from (with limited exceptions based on the catalogs that I have). 100% prepaid in advance. No refunds after the order has been placed (very limited exceptions). Other orders by special arrangement.

SO Kemasa has zero guns but if you want to buy a gun from him he will charge you for the gun and the privilege of him ordering the gun. He wants $25 just to pick up the phone and order a gun or log into his distributor account and make a few mouse clicks.

So what? Don't you think that I should get paid for placing the order? If the person wants to order it themselves, then they can. I also don't want to get stuck with a special order.

Now you better not be late when oyu tell him you want to come over and pay that $25 for the privilege of ordering a gun from him because he is by appointment only (read: his FFL is for hobby use and he has to be home from work first) AND if you are late you are subject to this:

Other:
All business is done by appointment. If you are late for an appointment by over 15 minutes, there will be a charge of $60/hour with a minimum charge of $15

Don't have a clue do you? If you work by appointment, someone being late can adversely affect other appointments.

Yet a shop outside Ca that does not want to go through the headaches of fighting other CA FFLs, dealing with Ca DOJ (yes they call when oyu guys get busted for making illegal conversions with our guns), extra paperwork, and hoping to find a CA FFL that does not have anti-Ca resident policies like Kemesa's is anti-gun.

More false claims and stupidity from you. The sad thing is that your comments show that I would not want to do business with you, as well others might want to consider whether they want to do business with you.

Yes, there are problems with CA laws, but that does not mean you should make things up. There are problems with non-CA-FFLs as well, you seem to be a prime example. There are many FFLs who make things up, like you seem to do, and make up rules which just make things harder, none of which is limited to CA.

Perhaps you have been drinking too much or perhaps it is because you are stuck on stupid, but I would strongly suggest that you refrain from personal attacks such as what you have done.