Seller Back Ground Check.

[oso grande]

When a PPT takes place, is any effort made to do a back ground check on the seller?
How does CAL DOJ know if the seller was really the legal owner of the firearm?
Do they care?

OG

[ugimports]

When a PPT takes place, is any effort made to do a back ground check on the seller?
How does CAL DOJ know if the seller was really the legal owner of the firearm?
Do they care?

OG

1) We're told it happens, but no confirmation
2) They don't
3) Based on what we've seen I don't think so

[XxWoodsHunterxX]

i was told they only do a background on the seller if the buyer is denied, that way they clear it to go back to that person, now if that is actually true great but who knows with them

[oso grande]

Does the seller have to be the legal owner?

[ugimports]

in theory yes, in practice I don't know how they check. For example:
Joe Seller goes to Arizona and illegally does a private transfer and obtains an HK VP9 (otherwise legal if he was an AZ resident, firearm not stolen, etc..)
Joe Seller comes back to CA and doesn't self reg and re-sells VP9 to oso grande.

I believe the DOJ would process the transaction even though Joe Seller was not the legal owner because the firearm does not come back as stolen/lost, etc..

[Librarian]

Does the seller have to be the legal owner?

That's really a 2-part question.

1) Can a non-owner get away with selling a gun?

Since the seller is not checked (unless the background check on the buyer fails), and since many guns are not registered with CA and so would not return an owner-record, probably this happens.

I recommend against that ...

2) can anyone sell anything to which s/he does not have ownership rights?

Sometimes that would be called 'conversion', a form of theft. Other times it might be fencing stolen property.

An owner can execute a power of attorney to allow another person to handle his/her property in the ways the PoA specifies.

And, of course, lots of property has no 'chain of title' in the ordinary way of business. Cars, guns, real estate come to mind as documented ownership things. But how do you prove that you own your shoes?

[ugimports]

...But how do you prove that you own your shoes?

(offtopic)clearly we need to start registering shoes so that we can provide a chain of ownership. I think a background check would be good too. I believe most people that commit crimes do so with shoes.(/offtopic)

[manuelcardenas77]

That's really a 2-part question.

1) Can a non-owner get away with selling a gun?

Since the seller is not checked (unless the background check on the buyer fails), and since many guns are not registered with CA and so would not return an owner-record, probably this happens.

I recommend against that ...

2) can anyone sell anything to which s/he does not have ownership rights?

Sometimes that would be called 'conversion', a form of theft. Other times it might be fencing stolen property.

An owner can execute a power of attorney to allow another person to handle his/her property in the ways the PoA specifies.

And, of course, lots of property has no 'chain of title' in the ordinary way of business. Cars, guns, real estate come to mind as documented ownership things. But how do you prove that you own your shoes?

This is from a personal experience, I know for a fact I inadvertently sold a pistol PP that was in my wife's name. I didn't click till about day 7 of the dros. Anyways nothing happened transaction went through, no black helicopters nothing.

[kemasa]

As said, it is not about what you can get away with, or shouldn't be, but about what is legal.

You can exceed the speed limit on the highway and often not get caught, but you do have to consider the risks should you happen to get caught. In the case of a firearm, it could be quite costly, and not just in terms of money.

[Tyke8319]

I seem to recall the fact that there are several hundred thousand guns in the possession of California owners who have possessed them long before gun registration was required. There is no way to prove ownership via DOJ for those.

[kemasa]

I seem to recall the fact that there are several hundred thousand guns in the possession of California owners who have possessed them long before gun registration was required. There is no way to prove ownership via DOJ for those.

Quite true, but for those firearms that have been recorded, there could be some evidence that it is not the actual owner selling it, but I have never heard of a case where they have gone after someone. There is always the first one though.