FFL Business / Customer Support Question Re: Defective Firearm

[ugimports]

To other dealers (not consumers):
I have a customer that specifically requested a Cobra Patriot in .45. We sourced it for him and he transferred and received it 10/12/2015. Since then he has had nothing, but problems and sent it back to Cobra Enterprises. They advised him they are actually unable to fix the problem, but offered him a roster replacement firearm instead. He doesn't want any of that and wants a refund.

I don't think Cobra Enterprises is going to give him a refund. Would you guys eat the cost (about $400) and refund the customer directly? The firearm is currently with Cobra Enterprises so I couldn't even get it back to sell at a gun buy back program at this point.

Thoughts? If it were something in my inventory that I pushed I would feel more like I owe the refund, but this was a special order that the customer specifically requested.

I'm trying to help him out, but not sure what to do. If he actually files a CC charge back I'd lose anyways. I've heard of other FFLs that have lost CC chargebacks even after sending signed 4473s to their CC company showing the customer took delivery of the firearm.

[acespawnshop]

Its specifically listed in my customer agreement that there will be NO refunds or exchanges on special orders. So, No I would not.

I would also explain that I stock certain makes and models because they sell. If this isn't something that you regularly stock it's because you've probably learned what sells well in your area and what doesn't. If this is something you don't want to keep I would let them know that too.

[ugimports]

Its specifically listed in my customer agreement that there will be NO refunds or exchanges on special orders. So, No I would not.

My only worry is that if he does the chargeback with his CC (to get his money back) he might win. Which means I auto-lose + pay the chargeback penalty.

I actually list no refunds on firearms at all (regardless of special order) as part of my standard policy. Of course I can grant exceptions. I may go the route that 21guns mentioned to try and avoid the chargeback and refund up to the amount the replacement gun would be. This would at least get him some money back and hopefully prevent the chargeback.

He's likely going to purchase the replacement firearm (whatever it is) from me anyway.

[acespawnshop]

We had a chargeback filed against us about two weeks ago. It was on a denial on a firearm that was part of our stock. He did an interstate transfer on a rifle then while he was here bought a handgun. After he did all his paperwork for us, DOJ and ATF he left. Two hours later he calls the shop asking if we thought he may be denied. We asked why and it was at that point he informs us that he had a misdemeanor charge and wasn't sure if he was prohibited or not. Two days later we get told by DOJ he is denied. We call him and let him know to make arrangements with his online vendor to return the rifle and come in to us so we can give him the BOF form and refund his handgun minus the 30% restock fee. (again listed in our customer agreement)

He never shows up. And after a few weeks we get notice that he was doing a chargeback with us. We sent our CC processor all the agreement pages and the denial page. Sans all the firearm information and irrelevant personal information. Two days later our CC processor closes the claim in our favor.

Moral of the story. If you have all the proper paperwork I wouldn't worry too much about a chargeback.

[ugimports]

We had a chargeback filed against us about two weeks ago. It was on a denial on a firearm that was part of our stock. He did an interstate transfer on a rifle then while he was here bought a handgun. After he did all his paperwork for us, DOJ and ATF he left. Two hours later he calls the shop asking if we thought he may be denied. We asked why and it was at that point he informs us that he had a misdemeanor charge and wasn't sure if he was prohibited or not. Two days later we get told by DOJ he is denied. We call him and let him know to make arrangements with his online vendor to return the rifle and come in to us so we can give him the BOF form and refund his handgun minus the 30% restock fee. (again listed in our customer agreement)

He never shows up. And after a few weeks we get notice that he was doing a chargeback with us. We sent our CC processor all the agreement pages and the denial page. Sans all the firearm information and irrelevant personal information. Two days later our CC processor closes the claim in our favor.

Moral of the story. If you have all the proper paperwork I wouldn't worry too much about a chargeback.

It may depend on CC company. I read a story from another dealer (from a diff state) that had shipped a firearm to an FFL in another state. That target FFL completed the transfer and everything was done with the customer. Some time later the customer files a chargeback. The source FFL gets copies of the 4473 from the target FFL and provides to CC company showing the firearm was delivered. He lost that charge back even though he had federal paperwork showing the customer signed off on receiving the firearm with make/model/serial number listed.

[acespawnshop]

Sweet, sounds like that FFL needs to call BATFE and report their firearm as being stolen.

[Baboosh]

I'm a little different as I'll always take a loss to make someone happy. Being a table top I need to find a way to compete with B&M.

What if you offered a store credit towards any gun in inventory and tell Cobra you want the value of the sale plus more towards the credit of 1 or 2 guns from them? Dump them online if off roster.

[ugimports]

Yeah I might do some combination of credit depending what I can get from Cobra. I haven't been in the loop with who he has talked to over there yet.

[Baboosh]

Get Cobra to credit you for the cost of your sale, not just your price of the firearm.

[Condorguns]

I would try and work with the customer to get the replacement firearm sent to you. Refund the money expecially if he will be buying again from you. You can recover part of your cost when you resell the replacement they send.

Both of you are victims in this one. You won't come out financially on top this way, but building a good relationship with a customer and hopefully people he tells about your shop is worth the ding to the wallet.

Doing things like this is the reason we have been able to stay open going on 45 years now when countless other shops have died out. Lol it's also the reason I can't afford vacations or a new car.

[ugimports]

I'm working this angle now..we'll see how cooperative these guys are.

[ugimports]

BTW: thanks for everyone's different viewpoints.

[Condorguns]

Anytime, keep us up to date and good luck.

[kemasa]

I think that the issue with the CC dispute is that in the case where the FFL loses, it is because the person charged an item and then the item was shipped to an address which does not belong to the person who has the credit card as it is the address of the FFL. That violates the rules of the credit card company.

If you have a customer come to your business location and you make a sale, then there really isn't any issues. The dispute comes with the manufacturer.

If the replacement firearm can be sold by you, then you might do something, but otherwise it is the fault of the customer. It was a special order, which I would not give any refunds on.