Question on Lease as Proof of Residency

[Kruge]

Been reading threads and haven't found anything that answered this specific issue, so I need some help.

Ok, my friend has the "CDL address different from DROS" issue, but he has a SMUD bill (municipal electricity), but he needs one other type of proof. He has a current lease agreement (8 months in on a 12 month lease). I told him I thought he would be ok, but he said the guy at the FFL (Sacramento Gun Range) when he was going down the list of types of proof mentioned something like

"a lease agreement signed and dated within 60 days."

Does the lease agreement have to be signed recently? That doesn't make any sense to me, as most leases that aren't month-to-month are 6-month or 12-month leases. I can't see why only current leases would be needed. There's probably a missed communication in there somewhere, my friend said this was the guy's first sale he was doing.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

BTW Hi, longtime lurker, finally joining.

[kriller134]

Just going off of my experience. I didn't have any problems with my ffl providing a lease agreement and a utility bill in my name. I'm in the sane boat as your friend.

[philobeddoe]

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs

Purchasers of handguns must provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification)

[kemasa]

There is only one proof of residency which is needed. For handguns, a CA ID/DL is not acceptable. If your CA ID/DL does not have your current residence address, the document needs to be a government document.

Part of the problem is that many people claim there is "secondary" proof, but that is not the case, only one acceptable proof is required.

I don't know of any time requirement for a lease, but there is for utility bills.

[ke6guj]

Been reading threads and haven't found anything that answered this specific issue, so I need some help.

Ok, my friend has the "CDL address different from DROS" issue, but he has a SMUD bill (municipal electricity), but he needs one other type of proof. He has a current lease agreement (8 months in on a 12 month lease). I told him I thought he would be ok, but he said the guy at the FFL (Sacramento Gun Range) when he was going down the list of types of proof mentioned something like

"a lease agreement signed and dated within 60 days."

Does the lease agreement have to be signed recently? That doesn't make any sense to me, as most leases that aren't month-to-month are 6-month or 12-month leases. I can't see why only current leases would be needed. There's probably a missed communication in there somewhere, my friend said this was the guy's first sale he was doing.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

BTW Hi, longtime lurker, finally joining.

per CA, just the utility bill is enough for Proof of Residency. you don't need two proofs of residency.

however, for federal law, since the DL doesn't have the current address, you need to provide a government-issued document that has your name and current address on it. this is for Proof of Identity.

you don't need a lease for either CA law, since you have the SMUD bill, and the lease won't help you for federal law.

many FFLs are ignorant on how the laws actually work and interact so you will get all kinds of wierd explanations on what they "need".

[kemasa]

If the SMUD bill is government, then that is all that is needed for both CA and Feds.

[Kruge]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My reading of the forums as well as the CADOJ website seems to agree with you guys, the SMUD Utility (city gov't) electric bill should be good for Residency, with CDL good for Identity. Since they say they need two forms, he'll give them a second form with the Lease. I can't blame people for not knowing the byzantine nature of California gun law, even if they do work at an FFL, although it can be annoying.

Thanks again. If for some reason they don't accept the SMUD bill and Lease, and he decides to vote with his feet, is it legal for an FFL to charge a restocking fee if they refuse to accept legal proof (he's already paid his money).

[kemasa]

If the FFL refuses to do the transfer when he has more than what is required, then they would be violating the contract if they refuse to do the transfer, but the reality is that it might take going to small claims court, unless he paid with a credit card.

[ke6guj]

If the SMUD bill is government, then that is all that is needed for both CA and Feds.

SMUD does not appear to be .gov. smud.org shows that it is a community-owned entity and doesn't look like it is .gov-owned.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My reading of the forums as well as the CADOJ website seems to agree with you guys, the SMUD Utility (city gov't) electric bill should be good for Residency, with CDL good for Identity. Since they say they need two forms, he'll give them a second form with the Lease. I can't blame people for not knowing the byzantine nature of California gun law, even if they do work at an FFL, although it can be annoying.

a CDL that does not have your current address on it, the one that you will be writing on the 4473, does not qualify as proof of identity. per ATF, you need a .gov-issued document that has your name and current address on it.

Thanks again. If for some reason they don't accept the SMUD bill and Lease, and he decides to vote with his feet, is it legal for an FFL to charge a restocking fee if they refuse to accept legal proof (he's already paid his money).

that would be something you would have to argue with the FFL about. the law doesn't plainly cover this kind of situation.

If the FFL refuses to do the transfer when he has more than what is required, then they would be violating the contract if they refuse to do the transfer, but the reality is that it might take going to small claims court, unless he paid with a credit card.

yup.

[kemasa]

If SMUD is not government and if the CA ID/DL does not have the current residence address, then there is a problem since none of the other documents is a government document, which is needed for the Feds. Vehicle registration is a nice option, if possible.

In looking at the web site, it does not appear that SMUD is government, as others have said.

[Kruge]

SMUD is weird, it's a Public Agency of the State of California. You don't go through the traditional state hiring process to get a job there, but you do have CalPERS for retirement. Maybe that's why they said they need two forms. At a different FFL, I heard them talking to a customer who had the exact same problem and they said SMUD would work, which I why I was surprised that the other FFL wanted more. Worse comes to worse, he just waits for the new CDL to come in the mail then starts the process over again.

Anyway, thanks again all, been a great help and source of info.

[kemasa]

If you can show that SMUD is a government agency, then it would work. I don't see that it is on their web page, but that does not mean much.

[Kruge]

My friend's Glock 19 is in jail until the 5th, but he went in early just to verify all the paperwork was good and the SMUD plus Lease Agreement were good to go.

Happy New Year!

[wandern]

There is only one proof of residency which is needed. For handguns, a CA ID/DL is not acceptable. If your CA ID/DL does not have your current residence address, the document needs to be a government document.

Part of the problem is that many people claim there is "secondary" proof, but that is not the case, only one acceptable proof is required.

I don't know of any time requirement for a lease, but there is for utility bills.

Can you please point to the applicable PC?

PC26845 simply says "(a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident. (b) Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice."

[ke6guj]

Can you please point to the applicable PC?

PC26845 simply says "(a) No handgun may be delivered unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm presents documentation indicating that the person is a California resident. (b) Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by the Department of Justice."

other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:


or are you asking about the "must be a gov document" part. that would be federal law which you can read for yourself on the 4473.